Shenny HQ

(02-23-2014, 11:29 PM)Tuesday Pajamas Wrote: [ -> ]You really can't. When the show ends Sheldon doesn't grow old. He doesn't get lonely, he ceases to exist. If they can't grasp that, there's no starting point for a discussion.

Actually, it's likely that Sheldon will continue to exist after the end of the the show in the multiverse of fan fiction where he will be old, young, happy, sad, and hopefully with Penny and not Amy much of the time.

(02-23-2014, 10:11 PM)FlyingMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I remember posting something almost identical to that in Orangeland a couple years ago and the response from most posters was "You just want Sheldon & Amy to die old and lonely in their empty apartments. How can you be so heartless?". You can't really discuss the show with people like that.

I apologize in advance for the length of this post. tl;dr

Here is what my response to people like that would be:

1- From a storytelling point of view, the point of the Sheldon character was never romance. One of his main purposes and the things that made him funny was his his outsider, aloof point of view and his very contrast with everyone else around him when it came to most social constructs and protocols and to romance. Even as an individual, he was strictly depicted as uninterested in romance and sex to the point that many people considered him asexual and many asexuals identified with him. Questioning and/or taking away any of those characteristics makes him less interesting as a character, and more importantly it makes him less him. It destroys the core of the character. I'd rather worry about the character remaining interesting and himself now rather than about his old age and whether or not he is going to be lonely then.


2- But let's pretend that we (the audience and the writers) all are very worried about Sheldon getting lonely in his old days when we watch the show! There still was a way to guarantee him having people/things in his life without forcing him into a relationship. In the last episode of the show, he could still have his friends (and his work and his passions). Not everyone has to have a romantic partner to be happy.

But if some think a romantic partner is the only remedy to loneliness, there still was a way to guarantee Sheldon wouldn't "die alone in his apartment" without writing him into a silly relationship. All they had to do was to hint at him getting together with someone in the last episode(s) of the series. They could write a subtle scene between him and Penny, or even between him and Amy (if Amy were around) to imply that these two have a thing for each other and might end up together in the future. That way, Sheldon and his spirit and his identity and his nature as a character would remain intact during the course of the show, the ending to the show would leave a lot to the audience’s interpretation and imagination, and the people who worry about him ending up lonely and old could relax!


3- While I think numbers 1 and 2 show that it was quite easy to keep Sheldon single and happy and himself without forcing him into a relationship, let's pretend that they HAD to, for some reason I personally can never fathom, put him in a long-term relationship with a romantic partner. But the question remains: why on earth did the relationship have to be handled this way? Why has Sheldon lost IQ points since dating Amy? Why does he keep failing at his work? Why doesn't he do or say anything intelligent anymore? What happened to the science rants? Why doesn’t he have anything to contribute anymore? Why is he shown to be always wrong about everything these days? Why is Amy's relationship with him the relationship of a nanny and a child? a child that has to be taught the things that he used to know in early seasons? He is more childish, weaker, less intelligent and less confident compared to his early self. Why has he become less because of this relationship?

They could have made the relationship about love and respect, but instead they have made it about control and manipulation and reluctance and sexual frustration. The ship has become the story of a (sexually) frustrated nanny teaching her boyfriend stuff he used to know before she showed up and waiting for the reluctant boyfriend to somehow change and to eventually give in, while instead it could have been about two intelligent adults challenging each other and having fun.

Also, lonely and alone are two very different things. What many fans don't seem to get is that Sheldon does not see being alone in the same way as other people.

(02-24-2014, 10:21 PM)WITCHDOCTOR FANTASTIC Wrote: [ -> ]Also, lonely and alone are two very different things. What many fans don't seem to get is that Sheldon does not see being alone in the same way as other people.

He just don't get who he was. The power of conviction he had, made him such a powerful character but these new fans prefer him as a hopeless little boy. I find it quite sickening myself and sometimes the character creeps me out a little. Which is a difficult thing to admit because he was once my all time fave. But he's behaving too young, for his biological age. Just to get him laid! He was more of a man before he met Fowler, at least he was stronger in himself.

(02-25-2014, 12:20 AM)Tuesday Pajamas Wrote: [ -> ]He just don't get who he was. The power of conviction he had, made him such a powerful character but these new fans prefer him as a hopeless little boy. I find it quite sickening myself and sometimes the character creeps me out a little. Which is a difficult thing to admit because he was once my all time fave. But he's behaving too young, for his biological age. Just to get him laid! He was more of a man before he met Fowler, at least he was stronger in himself.

I honestly believed that vintage Sheldon had more potential on being a real and better man than any of the other guys in the show and was also way more attractive in both looks and persona. He was confident, independent, talented, passionate, determined, loyal, honest, classy, and on occasions was even a gentleman. But now thanks to Amy now he's becoming almost as insecure as Leonard and as hopeless as Raj.

He now doubts himself with both his work/intelligience/feelings, and can no longer enjoy his own company like he used to, has become apathetic with his work, enjoys spending more time on his hobbies like trains, hacky sack, fun with flags, Legos, making his own convention, and more trains. While he finds those sorts of activities fun they're not exactly taking him anywhere big in his career. A good 95% of his free time is spent on dates with Amy or doing pointless boring shit at her place. And THIS is growth? Unless he gives himself to Amy then they'll really be getting somewhere in their relationship? Fucking REALLY?!! How dull and shallow is that!

(02-25-2014, 12:36 AM)Jislane35 Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly believed that vintage Sheldon had more potential on being a real and better man than any of the other guys in the show and was also way more attractive in both looks and persona. He was confident, independent, talented, passionate, determined, loyal, honest, classy, and on occasions was even a gentleman. But now thanks to Amy now he's becoming almost as insecure as Leonard and as hopeless as Raj.

And there you have the entire reason for his deconstruction. None of the showrunners wanted him to be these things, either because it was alien to their concept of what a protagonist should be, or a tantrum because some of the audience didn't like their actual Underdog Hero.

(02-25-2014, 12:36 AM)Jislane35 Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly believed that vintage Sheldon had more potential on being a real and better man than any of the other guys in the show and was also way more attractive in both looks and persona. He was confident, independent, talented, passionate, determined, loyal, honest, classy, and on occasions was even a gentleman. But now thanks to Amy now he's becoming almost as insecure as Leonard and as hopeless as Raj.

He now doubts himself with both his work/intelligience/feelings, and can no longer enjoy his own company like he used to, has become apathetic with his work, enjoys spending more time on his hobbies like trains, hacky sack, fun with flags, Legos, making his own convention, and more trains. While he finds those sorts of activities fun they're not exactly taking him anywhere big in his career. A good 95% of his free time is spent on dates with Amy or doing pointless boring shit at her place. And THIS is growth? Unless he gives himself to Amy then they'll really be getting somewhere in their relationship? Fucking REALLY?!! How dull and shallow is that!

I think TPTB decided to dumb-down the show to attract a larger audience. And a larger audience trumps creativity. Vintage Sheldon was way over the heads of most of the fans they wanted to attract. I can't imagine them even watching the show pre-Amy. They would sit stupidly with their mouths hanging open without the slightest idea of what Sheldon was talking about. "I don't get it. Where's the kissing?". That's the target audience for the show now. I feel intellectually insulted even watching it.

(02-25-2014, 01:22 AM)FlyingMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]They would sit stupidly with their mouths hanging open without the slightest idea of what Sheldon was talking about. "I don't get it. Where's the kissing?". That's the target audience for the show now. I feel intellectually insulted even watching it.

This made me LOL so hard. And yes, it really is intellectually insulting, that's why you should join the club of "skipping episodes". It's sad what happened to Sheldon, as someone said earlier here, the thread title should read: Sheldor, the conquered.

(02-25-2014, 11:12 PM)Berliner Wrote: [ -> ]This made me LOL so hard. And yes, it really is intellectually insulting, that's why you should join the club of "skipping episodes". It's sad what happened to Sheldon, as someone said earlier here, the thread title should read: Sheldor, the conquered.

I did skip "The Kiss" episode which is the first one I've missed. I'm getting very close to pulling the plug before they completely destroy him. It's painful to watch Vintage Sheldon being slowly dismantled piece by piece. What makes it worse is those who are loudly cheering each step of the destruction. I just saw someone in Orangeland refer to Vintage Sheldon as a "childish prick" who needs to grow up.