(02-11-2014, 12:32 AM)WITCHDOCTOR FANTASTIC Wrote: [ -> ]That is exactly what I think, and that is the danger of creating a genius. How can you create a genius if you aren't one? It's clearer the creators of TBBT are NOT geniuses because they put their creation in a bog-standard sitcom, and after a 3 year lucky streak treated him like an "ordinary guy". If you've got a character like Sheldon you can't foist the typical sitcom tropes onto him, because they won't gel and you'll end up with a weirdo character that doesn't make sense in the universe of the show.
Which is exactly what happened. There's always been a schizoid feel to the show. I suppose someone had the idea for the title, sniggered over the juvenile double entendre, and thus the idea of making them scientists. Really, though, they could have been students, there would have been more scope for their behaviour. Pitching them as world-class scientists is simply a label, they could be anything, the whole show rests on their social lives anyway. There's a weird disconnect between apparent age, script age and behavioural age. And some very odd ideas about what constitutes being either a 'geek' or a 'grown-up'.
Edit: I'm one of those saddo people who do recognise most scientists from pictures, but fail utterly on most modern pop culture, especially relating to music or tv. I don't think I'm the right demographic for this show.
(02-10-2014, 11:45 PM)SpaceAnJL Wrote: [ -> ]For a show ostensibly based around a group of smart people, there's a very strong anti-intellectual streak to it. A deep-seated distrust of clever, because clever is different, and different is wrong, a threat in some way.
An individual who had self-confidence and was comfortable with his uniqueness wouldn't gel with the other characters, would just starkly illustrate their inadequacy as people and their desperation to fit in. He had to be broken.
I mentioned this earlier to a couple of chums. The show has definitely turned anti-intellectual. Sheldon doesn't often seem smart anymore, just crazy and childlike. The last episode he made a friend but of course this guy had to be brain damaged.
Also Bert, the rock guy, he was a moron.
I think this anti-intellectualism was always there from the beginning. It just wasn't as bad as it is now, but it has always been there.
As discussed before, the way the show treats Sheldon and Leonard is the first and the biggest evidence for this: the main goal of Leonard, the hero of their piece, was to 'get the girl' from day one instead of achieving some scientific goal, and the guy who had dedicated his life to science and always had winning the Nobel Prize in mind as his goal was the character that we were supposed to find laughable and silly instead of admirable. (Yes, they seem to have noticed that achieving scientific/career success is not that bad after all so they are having Leonard get the girl AND have the career victories, but I think that still doesn't negate the fact that this 'geeks/nerds/the people who dedicate their lives to science are losers' vibe has always been there.)
There are other examples too: other than Bert, the rock guy, there was also the professor with a specialty in studying bugs (the one Sheldon and Howard went to ask about the cricket in one of the early seasons), and notice how he was depicted as a "loser" who had to go back to living with his daughter and how he was reduced to regretting spending his life for science. The same is true about Professor Proton. Notice how he is depicted as another 'loser' (at least that's the way he seems to see himself) when the guys first meet him. He is regretting his life, laments how another guy screwed his wife while he was busy with his science show. Sheldon and Leonard's encouraging words do little to cheer him up, and apparently he stays around only because there is a hot girl (Penny) around too. He also calls Leonard the real genius because he is dating a beautiful girl like Penny. There have also been episodes and lines about physicists (like Professor Rothman) going mad all the time or about the lonely scientist dying in his office and "turning into a pile of goo", as Kripke puts it, apparently without anyone noticing his death or his absence for a few days.
So, yes, I, too, get the feeling that the show is anti-intellectual to a great extent and sees many of the people who dedicate their lives to science as "lonely, weirdo losers" many of the times.
(02-11-2014, 03:28 AM)FranEssi Wrote: [ -> ]I think this anti-intellectualism was always there from the beginning. It just wasn't as bad as it is now, but it has always been there.
As discussed before, the way the show treats Sheldon and Leonard is the first and the biggest evidence for this: the main goal of Leonard, the hero of their piece, was to 'get the girl' from day one instead of achieving some scientific goal, and the guy who had dedicated his life to science and always had winning the Nobel Prize in mind as his goal was the character that we were supposed to find laughable and silly instead of admirable. (Yes, they seem to have noticed that achieving scientific/career success is not that bad after all so they are having Leonard get the girl AND have the career victories, but I think that still doesn't negate the fact that this 'geeks/nerds/the people who dedicate their lives to science are losers' vibe has always been there.)
There are other examples too: other than Bert, the rock guy, there was also the professor with a specialty in studying bugs (the one Sheldon and Howard went to ask about the cricket in one of the early seasons), and notice how he was depicted as a "loser" who had to go back to living with his daughter and how he was reduced to regretting spending his life for science. The same is true about Professor Proton. Notice how he is depicted as another 'loser' (at least that's the way he seems to see himself) when the guys first meet him. He is regretting his life, laments how another guy screwed his wife while he was busy with his science show. Sheldon and Leonard's encouraging words do little to cheer him up, and apparently he stays around only because there is a hot girl (Penny) around too. They have also been episodes and lines about physicists (like Professor Rothman) going mad all the time or about the lonely scientist dying in his office and "turning into a pile of goo", as Kripke puts it, apparently without anyone noticing his death or his absence for a few days.
So, yes, I, too, get the feeling that the show definitely is anti-intellectual to a great extent and sees many of the people who dedicate their lives to science as "lonely, weirdo losers" many of the times.
Yeah I guess that is true but they have become a lot more pathetic and not just the scientists. Stuarts almost ready to top himself.
(02-11-2014, 03:44 AM)Tuesday Pajamas Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I guess that is true but they have become a lot more pathetic and not just the scientists. Stuarts almost ready to top himself.
Stuart may not be a scientist, but he is a nerd. He owns a comic book store. So the show's "geeks/nerds are losers (unless they conform!)" motto definitely seems to be applying to him too.
But I agree that everything has gotten worse in the later seasons, and that the genius, the nerds, and the people who dedicate their lives to science are not the only targets for TBBT writers' "humor" (read "misunderstanding"). Others on here have already discussed the writers' obvious fear and disdain of the people who are *different* in general, of the people who remain single, and of women.
Fucking hell. The more you think about it, the more obvious it is...
Okay I haven't had enough lifetimes to read all your posts, so forgive repetition. I actually think I'm going to start watching the early seasons again(despite knowing by heart!). One episode that really stands out for me in hindsight is The Loobenfield Decay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z--NGuEaboA As I'm sure you remember, Leonard lies to get out of watching Penny's performance, and Sheldon, kind hearted obsessive that he is, can't sleep(I can just imagine him rolling around in bed, pulling distressed expressions, mind working overtime). The genius concoctes the whole story of the drug addicted relative, and even hires a colleague to play him. Genius!!!
(02-12-2014, 12:55 AM)pilot fish Wrote: [ -> ]Okay I haven't had enough lifetimes to read all your posts, so forgive repetition. I actually think I'm going to start watching the early seasons again(despite knowing by heart!). One episode that really stands out for me in hindsight is The Loobenfield Decay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z--NGuEaboA As I'm sure you remember, Leonard lies to get out of watching Penny's performance, and Sheldon, kind hearted obsessive that he is, can't sleep(I can just imagine him rolling around in bed, pulling distressed expressions, mind working overtime). The genius concoctes the whole story of the drug addicted relative, and even hires a colleague to play him. Genius!!!
Nope I don't think this one has been mentioned yet. It all goes wrong when he loses control of his own creation.
(02-12-2014, 12:55 AM)pilot fish Wrote: [ -> ]Okay I haven't had enough lifetimes to read all your posts, so forgive repetition. I actually think I'm going to start watching the early seasons again(despite knowing by heart!). One episode that really stands out for me in hindsight is The Loobenfield Decay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z--NGuEaboA As I'm sure you remember, Leonard lies to get out of watching Penny's performance, and Sheldon, kind hearted obsessive that he is, can't sleep(I can just imagine him rolling around in bed, pulling distressed expressions, mind working overtime). The genius concoctes the whole story of the drug addicted relative, and even hires a colleague to play him. Genius!!!
I love that episode, and, contrary to popular opinion on L-Orange, I like Sheldon's "cousin".
(02-12-2014, 04:09 PM)WITCHDOCTOR FANTASTIC Wrote: [ -> ]I love that episode, and, contrary to popular opinion on L-Orange, I like Sheldon's "cousin".
I have a little bit of trouble remembering that episode since it's been
years after I quit watching. Was it Sheldon who lied for Leonard by not going to the play? Or did Sheldon offer on going to play for him because of his addict of a 'cousin'.