Shenny HQ

More of Howie at the ballpark; he's so cute! They can't make me stop loving him.

I absolutely do not believe that the Howard from S1-S2 had any burning desire to become a father, or any particular fondness for children. I could see Raj being good with kids, I think Vintage Howard would be indifferent to them. He wouldn't want to share his toys

Yes, people's priorities can evolve and change as they get older, but this "Howie wants a baby" concept makes me sick. If anything, Early Howard seemed like someone who might have a mild dislike of kids.

**It's not just me, either, because I've seen more than one fanfic written way back in the pre-Bernadette era which had this same interpretation of his character: mild dislike of kids.***

There's character development, and then there's blatant retconning. This is simply not the same guy from 2007. It's just not.

I can see the argument that if Howard's Dad abandoned him, he doesn't want to repeat that same mistake and wants to be part of a happier family than the one he came from. But personally, I find the "Howard's Dad" storyline melodramatic and unnecessary. Prior to Season 3, I think we all understood that H's dad was out of the picture; there was no need to spell it out. Plenty of people nowadays grew up with just one parent; there's nothing especially shocking or noteworthy about that. As I was saying in the chat box, I don't think a sitcom character needs much backstory. The more backstory you keep adding, the more it places limits on what you can do with the character.

If I weren't feeling lazy ATM, I could post quotes from several "old" fanfics that support what I'm saying, here.

What I *would* like to see, tbh, is Howard with a pet. Raj has a pet, why can't Howard have a pet? He's probably allergic to fur, but I think he would have an unusual pet, like a ferret. Wouldn't that be adorable, Howard's pet ferret? For some reason that seems very IC and fitting, to me.

Also, I thought Raj would be more of a cat person than a dog person, but whatever. I'm an animal-lover, I want all of the characters to have pets, lol.

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Nobody in their right mind could prefer Passive Schmaltzy Married Howard over Deliciously Naughty Howard. Just look at his facial expression. This is that infamous "thousand condoms" conversation. It's when he's being a nasty smart-mouthed S.O.B. that I want to cuddle him, not when he's buying necklaces for what's-her-face, or whatever.



And nobody will ever, ever convince me that Flirty Howard was a one-dimensional character. He had his moments of self-doubt and vulnerability. Here we see one of *several* occasions in the early seasons where he starts to cry in front of the guys. It's played for comedy, but it's still an interesting character-moment:





These small moments of emotion from the characters are so much more skillfully-handled and IC than all this grim, dreary, overplayed sh*t that came later. H. was always a very emotional character, and you don't need big-deal storylines like a wedding or the Letter, to bring that out and demonstrate it. Keep it simple.

The point is, I've never said that I only want to see the characters in their happy and exuberant moments. I want to be with them in their moments of sadness and disappointment, too. But in a comedy, those moments need to be handled with a very light and careful touch, and not over-emphasized.

So cute and funny! This is how it ought to be; just the two of them:

I love the use of character perspective camera shots at end of clip.
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I wasn't going to bring it up, but I don't find that scene the least bit funny, touching, or anything else. I think it's horrifying and prob. the only scene from S1-S2 that I actively dislike.

Going with 'persona theory'; I think main characters have numerous persona(I've got Sheldon down for six!, at least). Usually with Howard we get his fun, prankster, light side, with the desperate salacious undercurrent. Those two serious scenes allow us to see behind the mask; Howard does have feelings, he is aware of why he tries too hard, and also he does love his father(but has to show allegiance to his mother). In a way they show how the character developed in their early years(it's like retro character development). We get the same with Sheldon and Leonard. Back to his fun side Was any woman ever impressed by magic tricks?

To me, he's an emotional and complex character, and I would still say that if there had been no S3 and onward. I've never liked him just for the fun and flirty side. I feel for him, and I would still say that without any of the "big" storylines they gave him in later seasons. IDK, I just think he's very special. He definitely has a self-doubting and vulnerable element to his character, but the way they've gone about exploring that has been so melodramatic, uncomfortable, and unconvincing to me.

I dunno, it just disappoints me greatly, what they've done with this character, because I think we could've learned more about him and his psychology and his struggles as a person in a much more subtle way. The idea that he used to be just a one-dimensional silly character and *now* we're seeing him as a human being is false. SH always brought nuance and pathos to that character. IDK, it's upsetting to me, what has happened. The way they've presented his character-arc or his path in life as a person doesn't ring true, to me. He's a lovely character, and endearing, and I don't need weddings and babies or big dramatic moments to make me feel compassion for him, because I already did.

I think it's clear to all of us that he uses his quick wit and sarcasm as a shield to protect himself from being hurt. I think he's very brave, in a way. And he was *always* that way, which is why I hate this notion that he used to be just a jerk and only *now* is he a human being with feelings. I hate this phony redemption story. IMO what they've done with this character just couldn't be worse. It is just awful.

Wow, I'm going on and on. But this character is /was special to me, and the heavy-handed way that they've chosen to explore his emotions and his personal history is disturbing.
He'd be a lovely and special and meaningful character to me even if this show had ended after S2, because I just don't know what to make of the other stuff. It's so weird and poorly executed and troubling.

If viewers were getting tired of the flirty/sexual stuff from Howard, the writers didn't have to surgically remove that whole aspect of his personality, they could just use those jokes less frequently. Same with Raj's mutism or anything else. They don't have to dump these things, just de-emphasize them a bit and play up the other fun and interesting aspects of the characters. As I noted in a previous post, Howard had already become slightly less "creepy" by the end of S2, and that's long before Bernadette or any of this other stuff.

The thing is, I don't believe anyone actually *was* getting bored/weary with the classic characters and all the classic recurring jokes from early days, so why change them? TPTB have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, as the saying goes.

ETA: I also believe that if people were tired of "Raj can't talk", they could've found some clever and amusing ways to get around that problem. Like, say, he can talk to Penny if he's not looking directly at her, for example, or maybe he can talk to her on the phone but not in person. You could have some very funny scenes of Raj saying things like "You're so beautiful and sexy" to a girl, but looking at Howard or Sheldon while he says it....
But, again, I'm not convinced that anyone *was* tired of that concept, in the first place. If this show had ended after a sensible four or five seasons, there wouldn't be time for all these running gags to get old.

Quote:Was any woman ever impressed by magic tricks?

I think I saw a Howard/Missy fic on AO3, once, but it was written in Italian, and since I'm not as much of a polyglot as Howard, I couldn't read it. (I was a Spanish major, though.)

Really, I think I would fall quite easily for Howard's entire line of BS. I just love him. Either I'm less discerning than the female characters on the show, or I have better taste

Something tells me Howard would like some "light rock" types of bands from the late '70s-early '80s, like Styx, Journey, Boston, Foreigner, Kansas, whatever that genre is. Not hard rock and maybe not *quite* hair metal, more like "power ballads"/progressive rock. It's just the right level of bombastic and overblown and a bit goofy, and soulful/emotional in an exaggerated way. You just *know* he's got some never-ending rendition of "I wanna know what love is", for karaoke night...

There are certain songs I associate with him. The main one is definitely "Strange Magic" by ELO, for obvious reasons. That, to me, is his theme song. Another one is "Magnet and Steel" by Walter Egan; IMO it's exactly the type of thing that a very uncool guy would find very smooth and romantic and cool

Maybe some of the cheesier Steve Miller songs like "Abracadabra", and maybe "Nights in White Satin", and just anything that's romantic/soulful in a cheesy and outdated way: "When I need you" by Leo Sayer, just all that faux-sincere, faux-sensitive-guy seductive stuff.

Do other HQ-ers have particular music (or other things, books, colors, anything) that you associate with a character?

ETA: oh, how could I forget Air Supply?

ETA again: but *not* Neil Diamond. Howard would like things that are cheesy but have sort of a veneer of being slick and cool..

Yes, it is strange the route the writers take characters. In reality; after Penny's speech, and LW attitude, I think Howard would have toned it down, maybe become more subtle, but the writers carry on, and then say, because of negative feedback they are going to bring in a woman to sort Howard out. How patronising! To men! Howard! and the audience! Maybe they're so stuck in their, 'let's remake 70's sit coms', that they don't know how to develop characters beyond that. As far as music, I think it's hard to deny that he likes Neil Diamond, and Eminem, plus some disco. I think he probably has a wide and eclectic taste, like most of us! Jim has come to say hello!