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I always find this scene funny....

Boys, please don't fight over me...I mean, Missy!

I freakin' knew it, CL's mother;'My mother, never a fan of my father's family, had an unfortunate habit of using Levine as a stinging insult. When displeased with me, she would often say/shriek, "You know what you are? You're a Levine! A no good, rotten Levine!' (vanity card 119) The mother 'shrieking'! I like people who have strong opinions. Personally, for a SciFi fan to be able to go into space, is the ultimate dream fulfillment. He does get bullied by other astronauts, but this is TBBT, Howard is often set in that role. He can usually handle it. But he still did it despite his fears. I do find those 'serious scenes'; 'father's letter' and 'opening up to Penny about why he tries so hard', a bit strange in a comedy. But I think that may be a way of seeing more of their character, who they are. Pity Sheldon was such an ass in former!

I love the use of character perspective camera shots at end of clip.

So the likes of Marcy Grossman (living up to her name!) makes me see why Howard is pushy. What I've always had a problem with is the; having a pole named after him at a strip club, and the prostitute. But I think the strip club thing is just Howard trying to impress his friends. I don't imagine while he was at MIT, or caring for his mother, he would have had the cash. And the prostitute, it depends how you interpret,'girlfriend experience'. Also CL and Lee Aronsohn were both writing Two and a Half Men, at same time as Howard was supposed to be hedonist, more cross over!

Also, what's up with this idea that H. makes far less money than B.? If she works in the private sector and he works for a university, then I suppose that's possible, but engineers make good money. At any rate it's not like he's making minimum wage.

This is just one more way of making her the powerful and superior one, and him the inferior one. More phony feminism. More "H. is a helpless baby." This show will never stop punishing Howard just for being kinda-sorta creepy. God, I hate the H/B. I just can't accept any part of that storyline as legit. It's all a part of the bizarre detour this show took. This show's ships are a Shipwreck.

In fact, I think that's a good name for the overall turn towards Rom-com themes that this show took: the Shipwreck.

Am I willing to believe that H. is somewhat spoiled and self-absorbed? Sure. But he is *not* this passive and ineffectual dead-weight who is totally dependent both financially and emotionally on a woman.

I don't care if H/B sometimes has nice/kind/caring moments. The nice stuff is too cloying and saccharine. H is supposed to have a bit of a sharp edge to him. He's a bit of a wild card. And he had some shy/cute/timid moments in earlier seasons that weren't overdone. There is vulnerability and self-doubt in him, but he's not this incompetent cretin. To me he is like Puck from a Midsummer Night's Dream, or the Artful Dodger, or so many other mischievous characters who like to stir sh*t up, a bit.

I remember reading, MR said the reason she was brought into the show, was because Howard had a sleazy reputation. But all men exaggerate about their 'sexual prowess', and it's obvious Howard over compensates for early rejection.

. But this sleazy rep is now based on a couple of innocent interactions; second cousin, comic con.

That's such a fun vid. Love that shirt, lol.

Quote:"But this sleazy rep is now based on a couple of innocent interactions."

Yes. There are plenty of moments, especially in the very earliest episodes, which show that H. is almost as naive and innocent as the rest of them. He says things like "Is it a boy-girl party?" He is all talk. That's the whole point. IMO he is only *saying* what Leonard and Raj are *thinking.* I don't find him creepy. Rather, I think he has no filter and little sense of what is TMI and what isn't.

Canons think Howard was some borderline rapist who went around grabbing women's crotches in public and exposing himself to puppies and kittens in the park...

I don't think any of those incidents mentioned in that god-awful Stag Convergence episode were so shocking. Who cares what he did, as long as everyone involved was consenting? It would be different if he'd hidden something like: he already had a kid somewhere, or he'd been married before, or had an STD, or got a girl pregnant and then abandoned her, or had been cheating. Those are serious things. But, he didn't do those things. He had some rather kinky sexual encounters. Those incidents weren't even *recent*, at the time. Who cares? Did B. think he was a choirboy??

I really, really, really hate that episode. It disturbs me. Not long ago, I was chatting with an online friend who is also a Howard fan, and she said that episode left her fuming for weeks.

That prostitute in Vegas was clearly a confident person and in control of the situation. If anyone was being made a fool in that scenario, it was the guys. She did not seem scared or hesitant. It's not like he victimized her. I know there are serious issues and abuses associated with prostitution, but there are also countries where it's legal and regulated to prevent abuses. It's also legal in some parts of Nevada, though not within Vegas itself.

The contrast between his appearance and his attitude is what's funny. It's cute and funny to see this nerdy little guy swaggering around like he's Mr.Big Shot.

Hey, remember when Creepy Howard tricked someone into giving him a bath? OOPS, no, that was Dear Amy...

Remember that fabulous scene where the guys meet Missy Cooper? H. is clearly coming on to her, and coming on strong, but it's not like he says "Hey, bitch, let's f*ck." This is a guy who tries to win someone over with magic tricks, for crying out loud. That's pretty innocent, even if his intentions aren't. Canons think H. went around putting roofies in women's drinks.

People who think Howard is disgusting are probably the same people who think Edward Cullen is dreamy; and he engaged in legit creepy behaviors like taking Bella Swan's car apart so that she couldn't escape, and sneaking into her bedroom to watch her while she slept. The "hero" of your average romance novel is creepier than Howard. Up until about the 1990s, romance novels contained a lot of outright rape, a lot of "dubcon" and coercion and the hero not taking no for an answer.

Pop culture is full of aggressive "heroes" who are subtly or not-so-subtly creepy towards women, but they get a pass if they're tall and WASPy. If Howard was less nerdy and more conventionally handsome, fangirls would eat up that flirty behavior with a spoon. In fact, they'd love it if Sheldon started acting overtly sexual towards Amy.
There are a lot of double standards in this fandom. If Sheldon used a camera device to look at someone's cleavage or look up her skirt, fangirls would prob. think it's cute and sexy or at least not egregiously bad, because they have a crush on JP and find Sheldon good-looking, but they generally don't feel that way about Howard/Simon.

If you recall, Howard had already eased-up on the overtly sexual stuff, a bit, by the end of Season 2, and that's long before Bernadette was introduced. He knew not to hit on Penny while Penny was with Leonard. (Hmm...Leonard did not do the same, in a similar situation.) They could've maintained him at that level.

I just don't see how anyone can call the destruction of Howard's character "growth" or "development." This goes back to what I was saying in the chat box, a while ago: Canons can't tell the difference between a good *character* and a good *person.* They think a good character is someone who would be pleasant to hang out with, IRL, whereas the most fascinating fictional characters are often bizarre and grotesque. A character who does questionable things and is rather amoral (not immoral, amoral), can still be a lovable and relatable character. I look at how things went, and all I see is H. being overly remorseful for having done some mildly inappropriate things, and other characters judging him too harshly for those same things. Sad, sad, sad. I don't need sitcom characters to be morally and ethically upright, I need them to be *funny.*

Thing is 'girlfriend experience' for Howard usually means getting bullied, and shouted at by the blonde shrew. I hope that's not what they bought him. Actually because Howard was recovering from his encounter with Leslie, what he actually needed was a bit of love, and attention(he'd had the sex only, from Leslie). That's what he was getting, a meal and interesting conversation. I go with this theory that each personality is made up of a wide range of persona. Usually due to social situation(or writer intervention), one persona is seen as dominant, and the others suppressed. Considering Howard cares for his mother, and is the real hero that went to ISS, his sexual experimentation persona should be a minor one, meaning there was no need to bring in Bernadette at all! I find Leonard and Amy creepy, and I think that's because they do it in an underhand way. Howard is ironically obvious! One recurring 'joke' I never found funny>

Yes, this whole post sums it up. The flirty/sexual stuff was only one part of Howard's personality, not the whole of it, and not even the most salient part, IMO, but that's how people remember him, and so the Canons over-emphasize it.

Personally, I find the flirty/sexual stuff hilarious and I've never been offended or threatened by it, for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post, but my favorite thing about Howard was always the cleverness and inventiveness and his interactions with Raj.

It should offend us that they've made these clever characters turn oafish and dense.

But God, is that eyepatch scene funny

Oh, and I never liked that Dr.-Dr.-Mr. joke much, either. They overused it.

Howard's hair looks awful in "Proton Resurgence", the "Gorilla Dissolution", and probably a lot of other S6-S7 episodes that I don't want to investigate. It's too short and too wide. It looks better long and smooth. I think he looks great in "The Alien Parasite Hypothesis." (well, not when he's attempting to wrestle, but you know what I mean.) IMO he looked best in Seasons 3-4, though those aren't necessarily the best seasons storywise. He looked healthier, too.

They will not stop messing with his hairstyle. Now it's too short again. He's also too thin again, IMO, with that almost gaunt-faced S1 look, which is ironic, given all the talk about growing up and maturing. The darker shirts don't help. There have been *some* cute outfits in recent eps, from what I've seen of the screencaps, but the more somber colors are not a good look for him.


Cute Wolowitz:

(look out for that spider!!)