Sheldon as Demi-sexual?

[SpaceAnJL]

I quite like the description of Sheldon as demisexual, because I think for him it's more like the switch hasn't come on *yet*. Everyone is telling him how he should feel, what he should feel, with Amy, and he very clearly doesn't. But with the entire world telling him that he's in the wrong, and his sense of self and identity taking a continual battering over the last few years, he's buckled and is attempting to work with the limited knowledge that he has. Except there's a glaring lack of attraction, chemistry, whathaveyou, right at the heart of it all. He's trying to light a flame that just won't spark, and it isn't because he's crazy or immature, it's because he's not engaged, physically or emotionally, with the woman.

[wellplayedpenny]

Good points all around. I've started some fanfic's with 'the mystery of Sheldon's deal' just to have Penny play detective. It was kind of fun because I got to explore some of the beliefs (sexual and celibate/uncomfortable with intimacy vs. asexual/grey-asexual/demisexual etc.) from Penny's point of view. And since I'm a shameless Shenny shipper, I was going to have them end up together at the end of it, but that's kind of where I got stuck. I am surprisingly just as satisfied with the idea of a romantic-asexual Sheldon having a queer-platonic romance with Penny, versus a demi-sexual Sheldon having a more 'conventional' relationship (I was leaning demi-sexual just to write some smut).

But on that note, I can surprisingly see Penny as Aromantic-sexual? It's a bit of a stretch until you remember that her concept of romance is basically kinky sex. I know she's had some long relationships, and showed a lot of hurt from her break up with Kurt(Which you could actually blame on cutting off her only support system in LA), but her way of dealing with that was to have a few 'flings'. I don't know, I could totally see Aromantic Penny and demi-sexual Sheldon having an awesome queertypical relationship...

yupyup. It's why I asked here whether a long fic with a 'just friends' ending would be a satisfying conclusion since I'm at the point where it could go either way. Shenny for me is the relationship in all its manifestations and each is intimate in its own right. It's like opening an assorted chocolate box where all the choices are tasty ones. What makes anything possible is that at the heart of it all they're friends and with that comes acceptance. For me that's what's the most 'romantic' about them: they clash and yet they accept. Sheldon's made adjustments to accommodate her without fundamentally altering who he is. She's a natural fit.

For Amy and Sheldon there was only one, the relationship of the mind, and they were doing just fine until TPTB decided to sexualize Amy up and she, like Darth Vader, decided to alter the deal. Totally ruined their bond, hence the reason why (IMO) Sheldon is as rude as he is to her--the genuine attachment has been broken. He's been betrayed.

[muaaimoi]

yupyup. It's why I asked here whether a long fic with a 'just friends' ending would be a satisfying conclusion since I'm at the point where it could go either way. Shenny for me is the relationship in all its manifestations and each is intimate in its own right. It's like opening an assorted chocolate box where all the choices are tasty ones. What makes anything possible is that at the heart of it all they're friends and with that comes acceptance. For me that's what's the most 'romantic' about them: they clash and yet they accept. Sheldon's made adjustments to accommodate her without fundamentally altering who he is. She's a natural fit.

For Amy and Sheldon there was only one, the relationship of the mind, and they were doing just fine until TPTB decided to sexualize Amy up and she, like Darth Vader, decided to alter the deal. Totally ruined their bond, hence the reason why (IMO) Sheldon is as rude as he is to her--the genuine attachment has been broken. He's been betrayed.

I can see where you're coming from. I preferred Sheldon and Amy simply as friends as well. I totally see what you mean about Penny and Sheldon's friendship though. For me Penny and Sheldon just fit, like the proverbial puzzle pieces. Completing each other because the other always excelled in whatever area one of them lacked.

It's what makes them an amazing pairing for me, but it's also why I tend to see them in romantic terms rather than just a strong friendship. Not that there's anything wrong with them having a strong friendship, it's just that they're both so lonely, in their own ways. Sheldon with his isolationist tendencies and blatant iron walls, and Penny with her tendency to drown her problems in booze and project the illusion that nothing is wrong. It just seems very romantic to me that these two can trust each other enough with their issues(They speak frankly about their problems to each other and constantly seek advice from one another). I mean, they let down some really impressive defenses in a way that's never seems easy when they do it with anyone else...But that's probably my inner Shenny shipper speaking.

I do think I could find a 'just friends' ending emotionally satisfying though. So long as the strength of their bond was acknowledged. In the sense that 'Sheldon is special to Penny for XYZ reason, and Penny is equally special to Sheldon for XYZ reason.'

[Nutz]

Greetings Muaaimoi, welcome to the good ship Lament.

Good grief, there’s so many things to say on this topic….On another forum I believe we engaged in a seven page ramble about it…

I don’t have the brain power currently to speak in any way edifyingly, but I’ll just start talking anyway....

Pajamas, demisexual generally denotes an ability to become sexually interested in a fellow human being, but only after a certain (variable) level of emotional attachment has been established. Ie, a roomful of naked calendar models of either sex would produce about the same effect on their respective demisexual targets as a roomful of wet lettuces. Ie, none at all. Or perhaps even borderline queasiness. But if one of those calendar models (or indeed anyone at all) was someone that the demisexual deeply trusted, was fond of, or had some other form of emotional attachment towards, then the possibility of sexual interest occurs, but still only towards that individual.

The episode in Season 5 where Amy manipulates Sheldon’s emotions by stimulating an artificial affection through associating herself with his fond childhood memories, was the one time (barring the completely left-field kiss) he’s demonstrated any form of vaguely sexual interest in Amy, to whit, the dandruff comment and his enjoyment of the “playing doctor” Star Trek style scenario. Otherwise his sexual interest, such as it is, appears to be centred around Penny, as demonstrated by a relentless series of inappropriately intimate comments, and frequent mention of her genitals (what is it, four times this season already?), undergarments, sexual proclivities and other secondary sexual characteristics. It’s obviously something of a burr in his brain, but I highly doubt it’s consciously realised, merely manifesting now and then in a somewhat off-colour fixation.

That said, I think his subconscious sexual awareness of Penny is almost superficial in nature, and merely the result of his constantly being in the presence of a chaotic, colourful, scantily clad female who gets in his face all the time. His emotional attachment to her manifests in other, wholly non-sexual ways.

So insofar as his relations with Penny and Amy go, I don’t think he has AS YET been portrayed as fitting the demisexual model, even though it’s a perfectly feasible scenario. Perhaps, as Muaaimoi said, his personal emotional threshold has not been reached.

He’s also not so far been shown to have any sexual interest in Leonard either, the person I think most likely in “real life” that Sheldon would be attracted to, outside of Penny. Presumably Sheldon the fictional character is heterosexual, according to the writers.

I really think they’re flying by the seat of their pants when it comes to Sheldon’s sexuality. Which makes any kind of assessment both unreliable and frustrating.

Personally I think the early Sheldon was written as a classic asexual, (bearing in mind that asexuality does not preclude onanism, it precludes the involvement of other people.) and it suited him marvelously. But if they’d wanted him to be “sexualised” for whatever reason, then the “celibate who lapses” would have worked as well.

Because, far from the incredibly dim-witted argument constantly flung in the Shennys' direction, that for S and P to work romantically, they’d have to violently change their personalities (I think they’re mistaking “personality” for “writers choice of romantic interest”), I’ve no trouble imagining Vintage Sheldon having “angry sex” with either Winkle or Penny, and then going right back to arguing or uncovering the mysteries of the universe.

Sex was not incompatible with the concept of Vintage Sheldon, who was an eccentric adult with childlike propensities, but I think it’s incompatible with the new, manipulatable, somewhat damaged, childish version they have now. His whole nature is severely off-kilter and unbalanced at the moment, and to throw any form of sex into the matter at this or some future juncture would I feel be somewhat repugnant and dubious.

But they’re going to do it anyway, because MONEY.

(NB, as a vague point of reference, like Witchdoctor, I also classify myself as demisexual....it's all rather nebulus and subjective in real life...obviously)

I would love to see your 7 page ramble on the subject. I also would love to hear what TPTB say about it. I mean we're used to hearing over and over again that one if the reasons Sheldon/Penny would never happen was cause he opted out of romance, but they never said what that meant. (Not that continuity matters to them). In fact I only remember one or two times (in the first season) where his tendency to self pleasure or his deal was even mentioned. (But I could be wrong). Although I will say considering how poorly he's doing professionally since Amy came into his life, he should have kept opting out. The poor bastard.

[ricardo shillyshally]

I don't think Sheldon really connects with people. I think it possible that the large amount of mental energy we put into social life, and understanding, Sheldon is using to interpret some quantum universe. He's devoted himself to knowledge, an ascetic intellectual. He sees sex as a biological process, aimed at reproduction. Logic overrides emotions like love. Besides he doesn't have the facility to read body language, or signs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-TtMNERAE So I think he would have to be virtually pinned down.

[SheldonCooperFan]

So we all know that asexual characters get like no media coverage, and when they do they're like two-dimensional robots. Even characters that explicitly state they have no interest in romance or sex (like Sheldon, or bbc's Sherlock) are merely seen to be celibate. Which is kind of what the writers of the show have sort of done to Sheldon so... It's kind of valid. I mean they mention he likes to get himself off, but there's no reaction towards other people, in the immortal words of Penny,"What's Sheldon's deal?"

The thing is, Sheldon totally fits the definition of demi-sexual, in the sense that I can only see him being sexually attracted to someone if they had a strong emotional bond(cough-Penny-cough), despite having a working libido, it merely won't extend to other people. And he says himself that he will probably have sex with Amy, meaning he doesn't seem disgusted by it, he's simply not over the moon about the idea, and hyper-selective about anyone he would do so with. Almost like he's waiting to hit some 'intimacy threshold' in which it's considered appropriate? Maybe?

I just wanted to start the conversation and see what you guys think, so any takers?

I think Sheldon is OCD and has a very Systematic mind set and life style. I believe most of this stems from the OCD. I think this makes him appalled at the act of sexual intercourse because he finds it disgusting. Even if he desired it I think for the most part he would restrain himself. He seems to have a logical reasoning behind what he does and is no where as needy as Leonard or Amy. I think instead of focusing on sex he focuses his energy on science. Everyone has a way of relaxing and clearly intellectual pursuits are a lot more relieving for someone like him. I also think if he does have any sexual desire his brain would stop him from doing much since Sheldon over-thinks everything. Both relationships and learning uses brain activity but some people choose sex over pursuits that will bring them up economically.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

Keeping my Stephen Fry theme going, this article was posted on facebook by a friend.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...al-illness

It is a very informative piece. And it's sad how much the show makes a mockery of this condition. Amy's manipulative treatment of Sheldon, is even more horrendous, when you consider the truth about what OCD sufferers really go through. All the while the Shamy's are baying for his blood when he's finding all the changes too much.

"Because OCD is not, as Fry's tweet would nudge yet more people towards believing, a behavioural quirk. It's not an exaggerated love of order and hygiene. It's a disorder of thought: harrowing, distressing, torturing, impossible-to-shake thought. "

The moral of the story is be careful what you post on twitter Gripe

[ricardo shillyshally]

I think no actor can play someone who has autistic traits(not; Hoffman,Sofia Helin, Jim Parsons), and be totally convincing. But Jim is good at exploring OCD. Sheldon obviously has many obsessions, but it's his compulsive behaviour that I find fascinating. Compulsive rituals are usually carried out to ward of an event, that makes that particular person anxious. He washes his hands alot, he knocks repetitively, he organizies everything logically, and can't stand untidyness. He also tries to fit a memory rhyme, onto the number of stairs! No Idea what that's about!

[Idle Miscreant]

"Because OCD is not, as Fry's tweet would nudge yet more people towards believing, a behavioural quirk. It's not an exaggerated love of order and hygiene. It's a disorder of thought: harrowing, distressing, torturing, impossible-to-shake thought. "

The moral of the story is be careful what you post on twitter Gripe

[ricardo shillyshally]

Yes I think Sheldon would be attracted to someone of equal intelligence. Neural pathways, hold me down!!!!!