It's officially a bromance

[ricardo shillyshally]

Here's another Sheldon Vs Howard gem. It's hard to explain how two sit com characters ended up getting naked. It's like Sheldon looses all reason when in battle; from hanging Penny's pants on telephone wires, to naked revenge. He loves it!

[Louise]

Here's another Sheldon Vs Howard gem. It's hard to explain how two sit com characters ended up getting naked. It's like Sheldon looses all reason when in battle; from hanging Penny's pants on telephone wires, to naked revenge. He loves it!

I'm gonna go ahead and say that I like Nekkid Howard on the Couch™, but maybe not the rest of the episode. I'm not a Sheldon expert, but would a germophobe (and someone who values his privacy, as seen by the fact that he won't let anyone into his room), be nude in public, let alone nude in someone else's car? Remember how he used a Kleenex or a handkerchief when touching the other guys' hands? I dunno, maybe someone else can chime in, here. I think you might be right, Ricardo, that Sheldon can set some of his usual squeamishness aside when honor/victory/success is at stake. But again, I'm not well-versed enough in his character to make that call.

Also, I don't think the Sheldon-Howard conflict needs to be quite so overt, or needs to be the focus of an entire episode. That's kind of a pattern in the later seasons: they take something that was just a recurring gag or a tossed-off line and they belabor it. I think this scene is hilarious if you view it as just sort of a wacky non-sequitur. Like I've said before; I think a lot of later-season scenes are like that; they're better when viewed out of context, because the "explanation" leading-up to the situation is just dumb and unconvincing.

I think Howard is a bit of an exhibitionist. There's one instance of Raj saying that H. doesn't want to change in the locker rooms and let other guys see him naked, but there are more instances of him needing very little excuse to just whip off his clothes, any time, any place. And there's one ep. where he supposedly sends out a photo of himself "wearing nothing but a tan-line."

Simon is just as cute as can be, in this scene. Couldn't be cuter. If you think about it, there's a *lot* of male nudity and fanservice-y stuff on this show. It wouldn't surprise me if the writers don't think of male nudity as sexual or titillating in any way, just humorous, because they have the "male gaze" in mind. Penny in lingerie is supposed to be sexy; the guys getting naked is just supposed to be humorous and wacky. Then again, I dunno. Do the writers intend these scenes to be appealing to the female viewer, or is it supposed to be sort of grotesque because the guys aren't conventionally good-looking?

I've always found it slightly OOC that H's clothes are just tossed over the back of the couch, like that. He obviously takes pride in all his colorful outfits and they always look crisp and neat. I would've thought he would've folded them or at least put them in a pile. Wouldn't want one of those precious belt buckles to get lost under the couch, would we?

[Idle Miscreant]

I generally don't post past season 4, but for you Louise, I will.


Actually I have no problem at all with current seasons Howard/Sheldon, Howard/Raj, Sheldon/Leonard. I'd say Sheldon/Penny as well, but there's hardly been enough to mention it. The friendship that went from making the series popular in the first place, to being dumped in favour of an artificially inserted girlfriend character despite the show's success being based on the three years WITHOUT this character...NNrrghhh....

TBBT has always done friendships wonderfully. It's only the relationships that I find deeply dubious/unpleasant/unrealistic etc.
They're at their height particularly when characters who are most dissimilar find some common ground. Howard and Sheldon are indeed excellent examples of this.
(Not as good as Penny and Sheldon, but- *stifled and sat on before rant resumes*)

[ricardo shillyshally]

The scene in the bar where Howard gives Sheldon advice about his mother, showed that they are friends, despite Sheldon. Exhibit B: Loveable chappie Barry Kripke plays an innocent prank on Sheldon. Sheldon launches all out chemical attack. In battle he's Lex Luthor, who still makes 'booboos'!

[Tuesday Pajamas]

And the second use of Mwah-hah-ahhhh! A young Lex Lutheor "you flatter me Sir"

Thanks for posting and reminding me of this scene. That splat from the ceiling is epic.

[Louise]

Sometimes it can be sad or discouraging to be (seemingly) the only person left who's interested in this ship. On the other hand, maybe it's a blessing, because I don't have to deal with ship wars and nonsense, and I can just sort of think what I want and do what I want, and not be influenced by others' ideas. I wouldn't want to be a Shenny; it seems so painful. There's some degree of closure, or at least of peace, to be found in a ship that's so decisively over. The show can't take away what it never gave in the first place.

The idea of Howard and Raj as a duo, as constant companions, even in a non-slashy sense, seems to have been left far in the past, except for the occasional token scenes which don't sound interesting to me.

We've recently discussed the fact that *liking* a ship DOESN'T necessarily mean one expects, or even wants, for it to be canon. My fondness for this ship has nothing to do with the idea of being canon or being endgame, especially now. If a ship's not valid unless it's endgame, then nobody would continue to stage Romeo & Juliette, would they?

In general, I'm not much of a shipper, and I especially find slash culture to be pretty silly, at times, but this is the only BBT ship for me. When people talk about Raj/Lucy or Raj/Emily, it's like I'm hearing Charlie Brown's teacher. It's just completely irrelevant to me. Maybe it's cowardly or intellectually dishonest, but I've reached the point where the later seasons just literally don't exist, for me. It's like that one annoying friend who keeps talking about people you don't know and events you weren't present for. Season 8 will never be part of my personal concept of the show and characters. Maybe it's "cheating" to cherrypick like that, and choose which parts are "canon" for me, personally, and which ones aren't. But if I couldn't do that, the whole thing would so bleak that it's not even worth ranting about.

The awfulness of the canon ships still has the power to upset me, though. New!Howard has been made the least-important person in his own life. He's been demeaned and belittled and had everything taken away from him, pretty much. That's a bigger issue to me than a ship. That's the worst part. But while the degradation of the original characters is still painful, the rest of it is just gibberish. Raj and Emily can get married at the top of the Eiffel Tower and have ten kids, for all I care. So can New!Howard and the life-eating virus, although that part's more upsetting. But none of it can deter me from my ship. Nothing can, because shipping is not about petitioning TPTB to make certain things canon, or pouting when they don't. It's their loss, for throwing away these perfectly symbiotic and complementary pairs, they had created. Don't give me Diet Coke and tell me it's real Coke, only better. (actually, I like diet coke, but you see what I mean.)

In a perverse sort of way, I'm proud of having a lost-cause ship, and I think Shennies and others should be, too. If you're constantly changing your ideas based on whatever's happening in the most recent episode, I think that's kind of fickle and flaky and doesn't show much conviction, though it sounds ungenerous to say that.

So yeah, it's very sad. But I should probably be happy to be by myself, rather than in bad company, or to be the target of so much venom and derision, as the Shennies are.

[SpaceAnJL]

'Raj' is total Secret Agent, there. it's apparent how much work wardrobe has to do to make these guys conventionally unappealing.

I entirely agree with you about characters being rendered bit parts in their own lives. Penny is much the same. Sheldon is even worse. There's very much a sense of Protagonist Privilege for a chosen few, and those few are deeply unpleasant people, frankly. They aren't possessed of any characteristics that make them remotely likeable, and I don't understand anyone wanting to emulate or empathise with them. Raj and Howard should have been left as a Buddy Duo, because that was where their strengths lay, KN's straight man to SH's perfect delivery and comic timing. We've been left with the most boring and sickening aspects of the show instead. I'd rather watch Goth!owitcz and his oddly innocent sleaziness, than the disturbing emotional manipulation and destruction of others. Howard coming on too strong in a club is a tolerant roll of the eyes, because he's harmless. Watching an emotionally stunted adult being lured into sexual situations is not funny, it's disgusting.

[Louise]

.

'Raj' is total Secret Agent, there. it's apparent how much work wardrobe has to do to make these guys conventionally unappealing.

I entirely agree with you about characters being rendered bit parts in their own lives. Penny is much the same. Sheldon is even worse. There's very much a sense of Protagonist Privilege for a chosen few, and those few are deeply unpleasant people, frankly. They aren't possessed of any characteristics that make them remotely likeable, and I don't understand anyone wanting to emulate or empathise with them. Raj and Howard should have been left as a Buddy Duo, because that was where their strengths lay, KN's straight man to SH's perfect delivery and comic timing. We've been left with the most boring and sickening aspects of the show instead. I'd rather watch Goth!owitcz and his oddly innocent sleaziness, than the disturbing emotional manipulation and destruction of others. Howard coming on too strong in a club is a tolerant roll of the eyes, because he's harmless. Watching an emotionally stunted adult being lured into sexual situations is not funny, it's disgusting.

I don't know why they're even bothering to give SH these major storylines. Seemingly they want to show that he can do drama in addition to comedy, but that's not what the casual viewer wants from him and that's not what a sitcom is about. If he wants to do drama, he should leave BBT and pursue other projects.
I can't imagine that all this dreary and unpleasant stuff about Mrs.W's death and conflicts with Stuart (!) is interesting to the young demographic which is supposedly so crucial to a show's financial success. Who is tuning in to watch funerals and mother-in-law jokes? How is this the subject-matter of the nation's #1 show? It sure doesn't sound splashy or exciting.

Even putting aside my personal preferences and feelings, I don't know why they're still bothering with SH and KN at all, if they're no longer a duo and all their original jokes/situations/characteristics have been dropped, which they have. They no longer serve any function in the story, unless the purpose of H/B is to make Lenny and Shamy look better by comparison. "Lenny are a couple and they have a bunch of generic friends." That is officially the show's premise now, as shown by the TV Guide summaries which someone (was it Nutz?) posted for us. It's no longer a case of the original 5 playing off each other and each having their own distinctive niche and purpose within the group's dynamic.

IMO the pathos on this show came from reading between the lines, not from overt displays of emotion. Howard was always a multi-faceted character, the idea that the original Howard was just a stereotype and that post-Bernadette Howard is more human and fleshed-out, is such a lie. People are too literal-minded to understand that the whole point of Howard was the discrepancy between his boastful confidence and his actual self. They're irony-impaired.

Surely I can't be the only person who feels this way. Once again, I think the confusion lies in the difference between Nostalgic expectations and New Viewer expectations. Canons are not watching this show *for the comedy* or thinking of it *as a comedy.* They don't *want* comedy, they want relationship drama because they want the show to provide them with emotional gratification. I do not look to a sitcom for some type of intense emotional climax like that person who taped herself shaking and crying while watching the ILY.

If I love the Howard character and SH's portrayal so much, but I'm unwilling to watch these new episodes, what does that say? I can't be the only person who feels this way. Yes, it's nice that SH has range as an actor and I'm not totally opposed to seeing him do some scenes/moments that are more on the dramatic side, but what the fuck are they thinking, not letting a funny guy be funny? Leaving aside my personal feelings, how is that a good business decision? "We're going to take the outrageously funny actor and make him our go-to guy for weeping and sighing and gazing wistfully into the camera?" What the hell is that? Why have they hidden a firecracker inside a deadening and stifling ball of cotton candy?

Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions. It appears that TPTB would rather have a ragingly successful melodrama than a moderately successful comedy. From a strictly business standpoint, this decision appears to have worked. But now the ratings are falling.

Meanwhile, KN is the most conventionally good-looking guy there, but for a long time they chose to portray his character as the least desirable, most dysfunctional, and most pathetic. And now his character's central gimmick is gone, so what now? He's charming and witty and there's wasted potential there, just as with the others.

They really seem to have a pattern of stubbornly denying the natural strengths of the actors and the characters. They want Sheldon to be the wacky sidekick, not the charismatic genius or the attractive leading-man. It's almost like they're frustrated and annoyed that these actors, and characters, aren't fitting so easily into their pre-determined molds. I, personally, do not feel the spell of JP/Sheldon, but I know it must be real because so many intelligent people have said so.

Anywaaaayyyy, I'm rambling, but I think SH and KN should've walked. What is the point, if the show isn't going to use their strengths? Again, I'm not saying that I never want to see Howard have a more serious or emotional moment. But these oddly dull and downbeat storylines sound neither appealing nor commercially wise. If I find SH and his character so appealing and fascinating, yet I refuse to watch these new episodes, there must be other viewers who feel the same. Anyone can play Lazy Husband, and probably for far less money.

Is that young demographic going to watch a pregnancy-and-babies storyline with these characters? Nobody gives a shit about MR or about H/B as a couple. The ghost of Helberg's charisma and the memories of earlier seasons are the only reasons anyone's still interested in this character. I don't care if the dramatic/emotional scenes are technically well-acted, this is supposed to be primarily a comedy.

And unless I'm very much mistaken, the people who enjoy jokes about marriage and babies are not the people buying t-shirts with "Bazinga" on it.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

I think this is quite sweet...they've got the characters down.