9.21 - The Viewer Party Combustion

[Idle Miscreant]

I've not seen this episode, and have no intention of seeing it, or indeed any new episode, because having ruined Sheldon yonks ago they've lost me as a viewer. I'm sure WB/CBS is weeping hysterically into their moneybags...

I'm glad to hear there was a sighting of the thought-extinct Shenny scene. How rare! The splendid Attenborough should do a bloody documentary on them.  

But I just have to quote from Kim's detailed Brothers-Karamazov-length post in the private forum;

"When Leonard said that he didn’t want to hear the word “meeting” again, and Sheldon did that annoying sing-song (meeting, meeting, bo-beeting..banana-fana, fo-feeting..) blech, that’s not the way vintage Sheldon would handle the thing. He could be relentless, but not..obnoxious, you know? This isn’t a brilliant/calculating Alpha’s behavior, but more like the kid who’s gonna hold his breath until he gets his way. Picture Sheldon with the operant conditioning techniques he used to try and modify Penny’s behavior to suit his tastes in “The Gothowitz Deviation”. That was no petulant child not getting his way. That was a genius, calling upon his intellectual gifts, to secretly influence another person in the direction of his goals. It was so subtle that Leonard had to observe him for a bit, and think about Sheldon’s actions before he figured it out. And Penny was none the wiser. That’s subtlety. Not all this knocking us over the head, spelling everything out business.. Plus, he was SUCCESSFUL. Dealing with Leonard..quite calmly spraying him like a cat: “Bad Leonard..”  This Sheldon? He whines and complains....<snip>...and Vintage Sheldon wouldn’t even be in this situation in the first place. He’d be too busy quietly plotting his subterfuge."

This is precisely why I can't enjoy the show anymore. I watched solely for Sheldon. Sheldon and his brilliance and oddity, his utter indifference to societal opinion, drew me to the show. Now Sheldon has been turned into an utter idiot. A gurning, simpering imbecile.

I haven't found him interesting, or - perhaps more damnably - funny, since The Scavenger Vortex back in early Season 7. He was broken down in the hiatus of Season 4, and then reconstructed into a fool in Season 5, but unfortunately I didn't notice at the time, as I was traveling and living out of a suitcase. I went straight from my laptop-based Season 1-4 boxset to Season 6, where I slowly staggered into a fandom for the first time. It wasn't pleasant. I went to a mainstream TBBT forum and was naive enough to reveal I enjoyed Sheldon and Penny scenes more than any other pairing, and that I found Amy to be a self-pitying, charmless, monstrous caricature. Neither of these things went down well with Amy's acolytes. I fled with the shirt on my back and by the skin of my teeth, to mix some colloquialisms...

From having Sheldon as a hero in Season 1-4, to feeling every screed of my soul flinch when he's onscreen, is NOT a good change, in my opinion.

Shenny scenes or no, Sheldumb the sexy toddler can go to hell.

[Idle Miscreant]

I have fumbled around and found my mod hat, in order to do something useful. So here. In defiance of my previous intents - Clips from 9.21, if anyone's interested.

"The Only Adult"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGNEqWJc99o

"Jealous of Raj"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyhj8tFQ-eU


I wish the couch below and its two embittered, self-pitying occupants would vanish into a wormhole, like the Chesterfield sofa in Hitchhikers' Guide...How are Sheldon (even Sheldon Mark 2) and Penny stuck with these unpleasant people? Howard is still Howard...thank the Norns...






Stuart also seems like a last surviving remnant of ye olden days...Although Penny's "May I take your cloak?" was a nice touch.






Why do they all seem like they're in some sort of friendship hostage situation?

Is it just me, or did Leonard's delivery of the line "weird brother/sister, Elliott/ET relationship" had a distinct and faintly amusing sense of shoe-horning about it? Like when a character breaks the fourth wall to spell out an otherwise incomprehensible plot point.
Brother and sister eh?
Very convincing!

[CTR69]

I wish the couch below and its two embittered, self-pitying occupants would vanish into a wormhole, like the Chesterfield sofa in Hitchhikers' Guide...How are Sheldon (even Sheldon Mark 2) and Penny stuck with these unpleasant people? Howard is still Howard...thank the Norns...

You can see the difference between the apartments. 4B is joyful and relaxed, while 4A misery makes me wanna kill myself.

Clearly Penny needs a break from Leonard every once in a while, so she comes to Sheldon to unwind and be herself.

She has a special soft side just for Sheldon. But when she's with Leonard or others, she acts differently, all tough and in denial.

[FlyingMonkey]

Those clips remind me of why I don't watch anymore. Everything about the show irritates me. Leonard is a whiny, pouty wuss. Bernadette's fake voice and exaggerated posture are like fingernails on a chalkboard. Amy is a dowdy, repulsive scold. And Sheldon is way too animated. He talks too loud and his gestures are too broad. He's more like a stage actor projecting to the back of the theater. He reminds me of the Church Lady on SNL with a sort of "Well, isn't that special" style of delivery. And above all, it's just not funny.

[Idle Miscreant]

Stuart, the dear fellow, should get on his bike, basket, cloak and all, and ride like smoke and oakum...

[Toad]

Because Sussman is so skillful and posseses such a natural 'hangdogedness' I'll probably always laugh at Stuart, furry cloak or no, and then hate myself for it afterwards. Because how DOES a character go from being intelligent and amusingly self-deprecating, "a terrific artist" even, to being the nerd the other nerds pick on?

In The Hofstadter Isotope he's witty and affable, a bit harried and under-capitalized it turns out, but nonetheless capable of charming Penny:

Penny: Excuse me.
Stuart: Hello again.
Penny: Hi. What would you recommend as a present for a 13-year-old boy?
Stuart: A 13-year-old girl. But if you’re dead set on a comic book, try this.
Penny: Oh, Hellblazer. What’s this about?
Stuart: A morally ambiguous confidence man who smokes, has lung cancer and is tormented by the spirits of the undead.
Penny: Well, if that doesn’t make me the favourite aunt, I don’t know what will. Is this me?
Stuart: Depends. Do you like it?
Penny: It’s really good.
Stuart: Yes, that’s you.
Penny: That’s so sweet, but what if I didn’t like it?
Stuart: It’d still be you, but I’d feel like an idiot.

And then later more than holds his own with Sheldon:

Stuart: What’s up?
Sheldon: Well, I’ve spent the last three hours in an online debate in the DC Comics Batman chatroom, and I need your help.
Stuart: Oh yeah. Those guys can be very stubborn. What’s the topic?
Sheldon: I am asserting, in the event that Batman’s death proves permanent, that original Robin, Dick Grayson, is the logical successor to the Bat Cowl.
Stuart: Ooh, Sheldon, I’m afraid you couldn’t be more wrong.
Sheldon: More wrong? Wrong is an absolute state and not subject to gradation.
Stuart: Of course it is. It’s a little wrong to say a tomato is a vegetable, it’s very wrong to say it’s a suspension bridge.

Where is THAT Stuart? The one entering pieces in art shows and debating semantics with Sheldon? I suppose that one had to die to make way for Cautionary Tale Stuart, a pathetic SINGLE lecher that the smug couples can look down on.

[Ratman77]

Well, there are points at this episodes which let me puzzled again.

At first: "Adult".


The writers put Mister Galecki the words in his mouth that his charater Leonard really believes to be the only adult character, yes?

Well,....

-The sabotage of the project of a friend. (Pole-expedition)
-Make the girl drunk to get her into the bed.
-To claim to send the prop (the ring) to the rightful owner, just to keep it for himself.
-To cheat his girlfriend
-To hide money for her.......

Is that all the behavior of an adult person?
Yes, may be. But it is definitely also fails of the character.
His behavior to Penny, to Sheldon (this strange conviction to be superior to Sheldon and also to his other friends) shows that, if Leonard really be the only one adult character, then he is definitely not an exemplary copy.

(Was this not the topic in James Barries "Peter Pan", and too in Steven Spielbergs "Hook"?
"All adult are pirates." Which one of the nerds then has the right characteristics-lying, cheating- to be an adult...or pirate?)

We have in german a phrase (of course with parodic touch).

"Little childs and drunk ones always tell the truth."

Well, from this point of view Sheldon could be a child, because he is not able to lie. But the past showed that this property based on an honest character. Leonard have all this negative features -lying, cheating-which adults try to expel from the children.
So, Sheldons behavior is for me definitely more mature and adult as Leonards one.
All of Leonards behavior to Penny shows-for me- only his intention to "own" her. For me-too- there was so far no evidence against that she is no more for him as a possession-a trophy. And that is not a good choice for a figure which should be the main character.

Regina (Audrey Hepburn): "Why do people have to tell lies?"
Peter (Cary Grant): "Its because they want something. They are afraid the truth wont get it for them."
"Charade" 1963

The second point is the jealousy.

If Amy really have the conviction that Penny and Sheldon have only a sibling-like relationship, why the authors let her be jealous? Why this hehave that there could be a kind of danger?  Is that only an "episode of the week"-joke? Or is there something more?


"QueenOf Sheba":
"Look how attractive Sheldon and Penny look in this episode... They don't look tired and beat down."

"CTR69":
"Clearly Penny needs a break from Leonard every once in a while, so she comes to Sheldon to unwind and be herself. She has a special soft side just for Sheldon."

Yes, they were(are) like energy-spenders for each others. They are for each other like the green lantern for Hal Jourdan, the alcoves for the borg. And when they are together than there are no distrust, lies or masks.

"Sheldon and Penny ARE friends, if they didn’t like each other, neither would put up with each other if this wasn’t the case."

Yes, they are definitely -very close- friends, and there I come back to the question. Why  jealousy? Could it be that Amy-and the writers- knows that only a tiny step would be necessary that their relationship would become more than just friendship?

"wellplayedpenny":
"That's the ultimate thing about positive relationships. They challenge each other to be their best."

My words. They have all characteristics which are necessary for a really good relationship. And I think that they are actually indispensable for each other.
Yes, Amy may be for him an important person. When they breaked up, he missed her. But , if Penny would disappear-no matter for whatever reasons-....I am convinced, that Sheldon would not be able to cope with it.

"Obviously some writers can see the elephant, too."

It is so clear like the Halley-Comet at the night-sky that there are two characters who have all ingredients to be a perfect, realistic and funny couple.....and it is still so, that the unwillingness of the writers sometimes dríves me crazy.

(Sometimes I could-like Kylo Ren-take my lightsaber and demolish my room. The reaction of the two stormtroopers are like the one of my neighbours......no, of course not.)

But how my grandma always said: "The best ever at the end."
And so I have still the hope that the writers are keeping the "Shenny" for the end and that all this hints of the last times are good omens.

So chins up, and SHENNY FOR THE WIN!!!

Greetings from Germany!

P.S.1: To "Idle Miscreant": I understand your anger very well. The genius and alien-like Sheldon of the first seasons was unique and it is hard and  incomprehensible that they have changed this great character. I feel also the same for "my" Penny. But I think it is not lost yet, so hold on through.
 
P.S.2: To "CTR69": Hey, I have also a "vision" in my head how "it" could happen. That the scene -at 4A- starts with a violent dispute between Penny and Sheldon. Like the dispute in "Panty" but much heavier. And that the dispute reached a high in a way that we could exept that the two would kill each other next moment,.....but that it ends with a passionate kiss,.....exact in the moment where the door opening and Leonard, Amy or someone else of the group came in.

P.S.3: Sorry again for the incoherence. The post is again written in a hurry.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

[CTR69]

"wellplayedpenny":
"That's the ultimate thing about positive relationships. They challenge each other to be their best."

My words. They have all characteristics which are necessary for a really good relationship. And I think that they are actually indispensable for each other.
Yes, Amy may be for him an important person. When they breaked up, he missed her. But , if Penny would disappear-no matter for whatever reasons-....I am convinced, that Sheldon would not be able to cope with it.

Maybe this is where Lenny relationship will hit that iceberg we're waiting for. Leonard CLEARLY wants to move away from Sheldon and his insanities, but Penny loves having him around. That's why she could never move away from Sheldon and live alone with Leonard. I believe she would dump his ass, if he would make her choose between him or Sheldon. 

If the script really pulls Shenny apart without even a tear from her, that would be the end of it for me. Like those scenes in OUAT with ripping a heart out and crushing it to dust. 

Imagine the cliffhanger. Empty 4A, Lenny moving away together after the 2nd wedding. Sheldon, being torn from inside out for never revealing his true feelings towards her, and Penny just packing some last stuff. First they're both upset with how it all turned out and if this is really the end, but as 9 years of Shenny flashes by, Sheldon finally does what he should have done a long time ago.



The whole community would go nuclear

[QueenOfShebaSays]

Their cute smiles and exchange! They're so cute.