A passionate and impulsive woman.

[Louise]

Out of all the characters we've seen, Leslie is the only one I find even somewhat convincing as a female scientist. She was just as into the Physics Bowl as the guys. I don't find B. convincing as a scientist, an intellectual, or someone with any great enthusiasm for academic subjects. I didn't find Dr. Stephanie to be a very convincing character, either, but I'd still prefer her over A and B, because I'd prefer *anyone* over A and B.

Yes, this show could do a better job of presenting the fact that women can be scientists, and women can be intellectuals, and women can be nerds/geeks. But TBH, that's a topic I can't muster much anger about, personally. I don't believe that a show needs an exactly equal number of male characters and female characters. I actively prefer shows/movies with a mostly male cast. I just do.

It would be nice if the female characters weren't so ridiculous and off-putting, but I can't summon up much outrage about the show's lack of feminism. I just want to hang out with the male characters and watch them do their thing...

---

You know, it occurred to me that Leslie is a very independent character. She's only interested in purely physical encounters, not emotional attachments. But we can't have THAT, can we?

No, all the characters have to be pathetically dependent on their S.O. for everything, and we can't have any lifestyle other than "desperately seeking a traditional LTR with the very first person who crosses your path."

Leslie is unpleasant in some ways, but at least she lives life on her own terms and makes her own rules. That doesn't mesh with the Lorre message of conformity.

If they *were* planning to place her in an Amy-like role and have her pursuing Sheldon in a creepy and pathetic way, then that's completely OOC, for her, since she's shown that she just wants casual sex and doesn't form attachments, and isn't really looking for anyone's attention or approval.

This shows how TPTB tries to force the characters into a pre-determined plot, instead of letting the plot flow naturally from the characters. If an idea doesn't work, they don't drop it, they just keep shopping it around. They're very stubborn.

[ricardo shillyshally]

I suppose what I think the guys need is strong minded women to challenge them, and their beliefs(in general and about women). They don't need to be in every episode, don't need to be their girlfriends,etc. Penny is strong willed, indepenent but friendly. Leslie was actually similar to Howard in some ways; looking to experiment and learn about sex and love. She then wanted to do the conventional relationship, although no doubt in her own way. Howard seems to have had writer intervention. People develop through experience. Leslie treated Howard like a sex object. If characters learnt from experience, Howard would have 'dialed it back', as Penny said. Bernadette irrelevant!

[Louise]

"Leslie was actually similar to Howard in some ways; looking to experiment and learn about sex and love."

I agree that they're similar in some ways, and I almost wish that pairing had worked out better and continued for a few more episodes.
Could've been fun.

Really, there are all kinds of pairings that I'd be okay with, as long as they kept it light and humorous and it didn't drag on too long. The pairings need to be a vehicle for comedy and for interesting situations, not an end in themselves.

I would've vastly preferred to see more of Leslie and Ramona instead of Amy and B.

Personally, I wouldn't want any dating-related storyline to last for more three or four episodes. I ship Howard/Raj in a shippy way, too, but the writers would never be brave enough to really go there, and they'd prob. mess *that* up, too, so that remains in the realm of fanfic, for me.

[ricardo shillyshally]

I think Leslie was too strong for Howard, but heck sometimes the right partner can bring out a whole new side. What I find strange in retrospect, is that LW and BR have the same MO. Find a man with a domineering mother, take control of son (he's used to it!), but the screaming back in his mother's voice, they both do as well as the giving Howard expensive gifts in bed! It's almost like LW was tested as a prototype girlfriend/wife!

[Louise]

I think the comparison with A & B makes me like Leslie a lot more than I otherwise would. Compared to them, she's awesome. If I had nothing to compare her with, I think she'd get a B or B-minus, in terms of being a believable character. At least she seems like a natural and legitimate part of the show's universe, not an interloper with an agenda.

A&B are absolutely nothing but conduits for TPBT's bizarre ideas and values. IMO the Amy from her very first episode could've been okay as a minor character, but B. has *never* been a full-fledged character. She's the guest star who stayed for six years. First she was a Mary Sue and now she's breathtakingly rancid bitch. I have nothing against MR as an actor, but this character is just not believable on any level. It's not for nothing that I'm always comparing her to a cartoon or a Muppet. I can barely even *hate* her, because she's not a person, just a collection of tropes. Her character is paper-thin to the point where I still have trouble processing that she exists.

There are times when Leslie says things that sound a bit artificial, but she *is* a character in her own right, not just a plot device. She wasn't introduced for the sole purpose of being a love interest and she's not there to disrupt the dynamic of the 5.

The idea that TPTB "didn't know how to write for the character" sounds suspiciously like "writing a female character who is even *somewhat* beliveable or likeable is too hard, we don't want to try." I have never, ever seen a show that is so agenda-driven, before. TPBT adhere to their agenda like it's a religion, and the agenda is that women are insecure and/or controlling.

TBH, I am someone who usually doesn't care much about female characters, one way or the other, and I don't get very worked-up about their portrayal. But TPBT are really, really, REALLY abysmal at writing female characters, and I say that as someone who usually doesn't care much about that issue.

A and B are a ghastly, monstrous grab-bag of stereotypes and things that no human being would ever actually say or do, even in the exagerrated and wacky context of a sitcom.

[wellplayedpenny]

I think this is getting off-topic regarding Leslie but I didn't want to lose the idea in the thread. When it comes to writing Bernadette I've always had problems because she's the drop-in candidate. No back story. No strength to her character beyond being Howard's girlfriend. That's why I always slapped her together with Howard as she really never 'animates' until they become a unit. On the other hand I can write an independent Amy with no problem. Maybe it's a mental block with Bernadette. *shrug* Actually I did pair Leonard together with Leslie and I think they make a dandy couple. She keeps him in line and yet she knows he's into his hobbies (and even engages in paint ball--willingly! *gasp*).

[Idle Miscreant]

AND musical foreplay.

AND they go back a fair way...




I always preferred Dr Barnett for Leonard though. Leslie would swiftly grow bored I suspect, and start mentally torturing the poor bastard...Just like in Roseanne!

[wellplayedpenny]

*snort* Well fine then. In my third story Leonard gets together with Dr. Stephanie so

But when Leslie was more serious about settling down she did see qualities in Leonard that she did like. Who knows what drives the loins of Leslie Winkle? After all, he is a magnificent beast....

[Idle Miscreant]

Hey, I want Leonard to get together with SHELDON...so what do I know.
Although I suspect it might be quite difficult to prise Sheldon away from Wil Wheaton.



Leslie was brilliant...I pine for her more with every passing season. She fit right in with the lads (remember the physics bowl episode) and provided a handy antagonist for Sheldon to spar with.

Leslie wouldn't be having any of these bloody "girl's nights" or wanting a goddamn Prom.

Her detached amusement with regards "romance" and awareness of people's ulterior motives was always interesting as well...

[ricardo shillyshally]

She is a good role model; honest, funny, intelligent, playful. Great scene! I have noticed how many sexual references there are in the show, but strangely it's only when Howard says it, is it seen as 'creepy'. When Leslie does it, it's seen as witty, modern, and exciting!