8.16 The Intimacy Acceleration (Feb 26)

[devilbk]

"a) They're planting the seed for the classic "erupting volcano, discovering true love was already there, right where you least expected" scenario, and Sheldon/Penny has been their subtle, classic and marvellous endgame all along.

b) It's a throwaway line, much like the Mexican Peso stuck up Sheldon's nose. There's no "weight" to it (not the Peso), it's merely a set-up and scenery for the following jokes; Sheldon thinks he's "warm and soothing" (he isn't), and Penny doesn't care for his escalating his comparison from sister to mother. Because that's a bit "much". Especially when engaged in a stare-athon with an ostensible adult."

I totally accept your conclusions. I think we've been as obsessed with the brother/sister thing as the Shamies and Lennies have. It's a red herring AND a throwaway. What was of value was what came before. And it's some of the best Shenny we've ever had.

[Idle Miscreant]

This thread was getting a trifle verbal. Why are we all such wordy bastards?

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[Idle Miscreant]

AV Club Review. Loads of Sheldon/Penny praise in the comments.http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/big-bang-th...ion-215866
If you add in the comments this episode spawned on twitter, IMDB, FB etc, and then add the general comments the duo gain every day, for such a 'preposterous' concept as we are told their pairing is, there's certainly a lot of public support, interest, fascination, and approval. For, you know, the last EIGHT YEARS.

Doyle brought Holmes back from the dead because the public wanted it. And wasn't THAT a good idea, eh? Yes it was.

Normally I'd have only praise for a show relentlessly pursuing its own agenda in the face of repeated public request for a DIFFERENT storyline, but I can't lend support to the show's rigid pursuit of current canon, simply because it's not the SAME agenda they were pursuing at the beginning. In order to justify a tyrannous adherence to one's Vision, or even for it to qualify as a legitimate Vision in the first place, a certain level of internal consistency is needed. Changing your main character's personality mid-stream is not only inconsistent, it's not fair to your original audience.

If Lorre et al knew where they were headed with Sheldon from the beginning, and this violent swing in personality was PLANNED (for whatever reason) I'd still dislike it, but I'd have no problem with it artistically.
But we KNOW from WPP's studies, that their conception of Sheldon was solidly and consistently that of Vintage Sheldon up until the 4th season. In season 3 the character as he is NOW would never have occurred to them. In Season 5 the interviews abruptly change. Everything is reversed. Because they wanted to keep writing for the AFF character, so Sheldon's character was bent around and distorted to accommodate her.

And you just don't do that to your hero...

[Tuesday Pajamas]

Okay... I was really scared to watch this episode. Like a big woose I avoided it for 3 days. I was terrified that it would be cynical and mean. That the last 5 years of love for the show and 2 for this site build, would be a complete bust. So it took much encouragement from a certain Gadfly and a glass of this stuff to get me to to commit. So here's my verdict....

8.16 was utterly beautiful. It started out with a few jokes, some awkwardness and later had S/P saying they were sibling-like and the rest of it just rocketed. Never before... not in the last 8 years have we seen Sheldon open up like this, for such a prolonged period. Not for the Shamy kiss, not for his ILY to Amy and not for the dungeons and dragons scene last season. Sheldon gave it his all, from start to finish and to see Penny slowly warming to him was just magic.

It was as if the writers were saying "We get it, we can't give you want you want, but this is our gift to you." It was astonishing. I'm blown away. If this is the final Shenny scene we ever get, then its closure for me, just like it was for spuffy. The writers have acknowledged us. It could have been awkward and cruel but it was fucking amazing.

[devilbk]

Sheldon and Penny spoke to each other the way that I always imagined them speaking, like I try to get them to speak in my stories. Some keep obsessing over the tag and the brother/sister thing (guilty as charged) but I keep coming back to the conversation itself, where Penny and Sheldon reveal their vulnerabilities to each other honestly and with obvious affection. The other characters are incapable of doing that without being mawkish. And Leonard reveals his vulnerability as a ploy to get laid. No, I still take 8.16 as a win. TPTB will never be able to match the level of real affection Penny and Sheldon (and Kaley and Jim) have for each other with any other pairing.

[spuffyfan]

Ok you guys have said all I wanted to and then some….

I must confess that I haven't seen the episode in full….and to be honest I'm really not motivated to watch it. I'll just have to take your words for it (especially PJ's - who has been dreading this episode as much as I have) that it included some of the best Shenny scenes that they have ever written. Well I'm glad, at least my ship has gone down with a bang rather than a whimper.

However, I will comment on the few things I did like about the little clip I saw (most of which are a rehash of what I said in Chat). A major plus for me is that, even though JP was still playing himself rather than Sheldon, he didn't use the voice I despise so much. Thank God! If this was how he actually played his romantic scenes with Mayim, he might actually be convincing. I also found the Shenny interaction in this scene completely genuine and lovely to watch - and I have to say kudos to Kaley for that (I don't actually think she was acting much) but I liked it nonetheless because of the camaraderie that the two actors shared.

I also must share some general feelings I have about the show since I can't actually bring myself to watch the whole episode. I'm a little peeved that tptb are so creatively bankrupt that they are using the words of ordinary fans to put down a harmless ship. I'm taking about the sibling thing. Whoever said that most of the episodes this season have been taken straight from Shamy fanfic is absolutely right. The sibling thing was so completely random and ham-fisted, it offends me. We have known from the way the show is currently set up, with Penny engaged and Sheldon involved, that the love experiment was hardly going to yield the results Shenny fans wanted to see. There is no other reason to include the sibling thing except that they were trying to explain the obvious chemistry that these two characters shared and channel it in a harmless way (by throwing in something jokey in the midst of a conversation that was so meaningful) - and it would seem it was more for their own benefit than ours. Besides it is definitely inconsistent with the way they had portrayed Sheldon's and Penny's relationship up to season 3 - not to mention the numerous times Sheldon had mentioned Penny's genitals thereafter.

It is only certain people (I think that most of us here recognise that the Shenny chemistry surpasses this type of labelling although our reactions to the scene has varied) that are not able to see the 'sibling' thing for what it really was - a simple way out for very timid/lazy writers who do not understand ambiguity or friendship for that matter. Then again, these writers have always been better at telling rather than showing when it comes to their handling of relationships on the show. They were not convincing the other times they did it *coughwhatStuartsaidabouttheLennycough*, they certainly are not convincing now.

More importantly, did it make me love my ship any less? ABSOLUTELY NOT. However, it did succeed in turning me away from the show for good - because the words they put in the characters' mouths did have an air of finality about them and frankly it would be exhausting to analyse the implications or non-implications of what they were going for. At least I have closure now - I'd have been happier if it had come sooner rather than in season 8 when the show is completely in the dumps.

I think a lot of Shenny fans have carried a torch for this long because of the ambiguity of their relationship - these two have the closest relationship on the show and it wasn't much of a stretch to imagine that it would blossom into something more. We have said for many moons now that Shamy and Lenny are going to be end game but, wishful thinking permitting, we had hoped that tptb had something up their sleeves and, when we least expected it, they would have surprised everyone. I mean, come on, they write the canon couples so badly you'd think it was on purpose. Alas, we have to accept the fact that these writers stink at writing romance. They have no clue how to write a funny, romantic relationship that is not dysfunctional or soppy. Yet, the one relationship that would have given them endless fodder for comedy and romance, they have neglected for many seasons now. So closure? Check!

Having said that, I am absolutely sickened by the way certain people in this fandom are behaving - and have always behaved towards us. And to think these are the sorts of people Lorre et al want to appease, it makes my blood boil. I've heard of sore losers before, never winners. Haven't they always said that Shenny have a sibling type relationship - because according to them and tptb the only type of non-romantic relationship that can exist between two people is of the familial kind - and didn't the episode justify what they have always said? What do these people want from us? Do they really think we would renounce our feelings for Penny and Sheldon and come round to the way they see things? Not a bloody chance!

Like IM said, if these writers were actually following their own vision for the show, then I would have taken this obvious punch in the face somewhat graciously. Don't get me wrong, I would have been peeved off but at least I would have respected them a little. As it stands, they disgust me - for betraying their own characters for the sake of money and for never speaking out against the obvious bullying that goes on in this fandom. No one can tell me that they are unaware of the level of hatred that gets directed towards Shenny fans. You'd only have to look at tweets to Prady before the episode aired for you to see the familiar trend - all the ridiculing and swearing directed at Shenny fans. Yet they somehow get a free pass. I think that it is completely unacceptable that tptb are rewarding some very petty people.

Well folks, this is the end of my rant. I have not said anything new because you guys are always on point with your analysis. There are bits and bobs of all that has been said about the episode that I sympathise with. But, in terms of my overarching feeling (bearing in mind I haven't watched the episode in full ) is that, and I know some of you saw it differently, the sibling thing did shut the door firmly on the idea of Shenny. I'll be lying if I said it doesn't bother me. However, I should have faced facts sooner. Nothing about this show has pleased me for years, and the people that treat the show like the holy grail have effectively ruined whatever ounce of loyalty and interest I had in it. Consequently, I'm probably going to start winding down my activities on this forum - I know, I've said this many times before but I really do mean it this time round.

[Toad]

Remember, folks, no matter how much we may vehemently disagree with the direction the show has moved, let's make a conscious effort not to attack the character of the fans, canon or otherwise.

Thank you.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

I also must share some general feelings I have about the show since I can't actually bring myself to watch the whole episode. I'm a little peeved that tptb are so creatively bankrupt that they are using the words of ordinary fans to put down a harmless ship. I'm taking about the sibling thing. Whoever said that most of the episodes this season have been taken straight from Shamy fanfic is absolutely right. The sibling thing was so completely random and ham-fisted, it offends me. We have known from the way the show is currently set up, with Penny engaged and Sheldon involved, that the love experiment was hardly going to yield the results Shenny fans wanted to see. There is no other reason to include the sibling thing except that they were trying to explain the obvious chemistry that these two characters shared and channel it in a harmless way (by throwing in something jokey in the midst of a conversation that was so meaningful) - and it would seem it was more for their own benefit than ours. Besides it is definitely inconsistent with the way they had portrayed Sheldon's and Penny's relationship up to season 3 - not to mention the numerous times Sheldon had mentioned Penny's genitals thereafter.

I had the same feelings about this episode. Perhaps the writers were finally admitting that they are aware of S/P chemistry but thought they could rechannel it, to suit them. It just seems a very odd time to do it, most Shennys gave up the show years ago. But the most interesting thing is the how positive the casual viewers were about it. Hardly anyone mentioned the sibling line but dozens mentioned the chemistry. If they did set out to hurt us, they scored a bit of an own goal.

[Nutz]

I haven't watched the episode. Not cause of what I was afraid to see, but because my Tutu (grandmother) passed two weeks ago, so I have no intention (Shenny or not) to watch them play up death for cheap laughs for weeks on end. I will probably get around to it (as well as the Comic Book Store regeneration and the upcoming supposed "wake" episode at Howards mom home)

Regarding Penny and Sheldon's relationSHIP (and no matter if it's friend, or romantic, it still a SHIP), The TPTB have had no problem in the past playing up a "Bromance" between characters, and you take away the fact that Penny's a girl (although hearing how she acts like the "man" in the Lenny relationship makes you wonder) isn't that what you have between Sheldon and Penny? Best friends who tell each other their most intimate secrets and who love and trust each other deeply. We know this NOT cause it's TOLD to us by a minor reoccurring character or bystander, but by hearing it with the words they say to each other, and seeing it in their body language as they look at each other.

They are each others best friend. Not Leonard, and not Amy. If TPTB and the writers would just acknowledge this, (and give them a few plots together each year) most Shenny's would be perfectly content. (and by extension, the vintage Sheldon's, since he acts more like he did in seasons 1-4 when Shenny is together) Unfortunately they chickened out and played the "family card". Why? Maybe to save themselves from being threatened and sworn at by Lenny's and Shamy's, maybe cause (in caveman like reasoning) they believe that men and women can't be friends without sex getting involved, maybe cause Shenny scenes (even as friends) shows even casual viewers how one dimensional the other "ships" truly are, or maybe a just because a true "bestie" friendship between Shenny just can't be fathomed by certain people who think manipulation and selfishness is the height of relationship comedy gold.

If their intention in this episode was to put the "final nail in the coffin" on Shenny, from the reviews I've been reading on twitter, Facebook and other sites it seems like it was an epic fail. No matter what they say or do, TPTB can't control Jim and Kaley from taking what was scripted (even if it was bad) and making it into a special moment, and I think that's really what scares the Lenny's and Shamy's. That's why they cry, whine, and swear at TPTB when they hear Shenny has a scene together. Cause it doesn't matter if they're driving each other bat crap crazy, or sharing intimate secrets, Shenny (because of the actors) has more passion, drive and heart then their ships and they know it. The only thing that might make them happy is when Lenny AND Shamy are married, but I wouldn't count on it cause they know deep, deep down that if canon and continuity can change for their ship, it can be changed again.

And doesn't that just terrify them.

[Idle Miscreant]

In my vaguely half-arsed, self-appointed job of chronicler, I've gathered a few of those comments of the general public together. This is a selection from Twitter, regarding Sheldon & Penny, and 8.16. Taken in no particular order from after the 27th February (Ignore my laptop's belief that it is one day behind the world.) Thought you chaps might enjoy reading it.
None of these people are "Shennies", expect for the last page, who appear to be "latent/lost" Shennies. The bulk are just everyday viewers.