Sheldor the Conqueror

[FranEssi]

Sheldon is now looking to the others for guidance, they have successfully damaged his sense of self. And these characters all had less confidence in themselves than he did. Now it's the other way round.

While I totally agree with you about the fact that Sheldon's confidence and his sense of self have been severely damaged in the recent seasons, I'd like to also point out that his seeking advice from others when it comes to dealing with social situations and interactions is something that has been a part of his character since day one. He has always had that vulnerability about him. In the very first episode, when Penny is in his and Leonard's apartment, she asks, "Will it be totally weird if I use your shower?", to which Sheldon replies "Yes!" but he quickly changes his answer to "No!" when he sees Leonard giving Penny a negative answer. The same happens in the second episode, when he and Leonard take Penny's mattress upstairs and she asks if it was hard to get it up the stairs. Sheldon is about to say "Yes!" but again he changes his answer to "No!" when he sees that's what Leonard is doing. Also notice how he immediately listens to Leonard when Leonard asks him to go apologize to Penny for getting into her apartment in the middle of the night. Then comes the "non-optional social convention/obligation". If I am not mistaken, it's in the episode Penny is trying to throw Leonard a birthday party. Howard tells Penny all she has to do is tell Sheldon "it's a non-optional social convention" to get him to do what is needed. And we see that it works on Sheldon, and he immediately changes his course of actions to adapt.

I think this all shows that he has always been aware of his lack of understanding of certain social protocols and situations and has trusted his friends and the people around him to point it out to him when he is being oblivious to those protocols and situations. Because he seems to know that there are certain social rituals you have to go through, whether you like it or not, in order to get by in society and in life.

But here is the problem.

While I appreciate his awareness of his weakness, and his willingness to trust his friends' advice and interpretations of social life, I think he and his friends take things too far sometimes. They have been for a few seasons now; to the point that Sheldon has become (or is shown to be) too naive in social life, always ending up "in the wrong". He is trusting his friends' "life lessons" too much IMO, while doubting his own intellect and POV in the matter. As taffinabean said, he is now needed to be told that he should be 'sad' at a funeral!

I hate how the show is completely tossing away and rejecting "intellect" as one of the viable tools/ways/methods you can use to decipher the world around you. I am not forgetting that Sheldon has difficulty processing, understanding and expressing certain emotions and that intellect alone, intellect without the presence of emotions, cannot make a healthy human being, but suggesting that intellect has *nothing* to offer when it comes to everyday life is ridiculous IMO. Also, who says that the people who are giving Sheldon advice are emotionally healthy people themselves? They are far from it! But as SpaceAnjl said, having someone like Sheldon around probably makes them feel better about themselves and helps convince themselves that they understand so much about people, relationships and life in general.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

Sheldon is now looking to the others for guidance, they have successfully damaged his sense of self. And these characters all had less confidence in themselves than he did. Now it's the other way round.

While I totally agree with you about the fact that Sheldon's confidence and his sense of self have been severely damaged in the recent seasons, I'd like to also point out that his seeking advice from others when it comes to dealing with social situations and interactions is something that has been a part of his character since day one. He has always had that vulnerability about him. In the very first episode, when Penny is in his and Leonard's apartment, she asks, "Will it be totally weird if I use your shower?", to which Sheldon replies "Yes!" but he quickly changes his answer to "No!" when he sees Leonard giving Penny a negative answer. The same happens in the second episode, when he and Leonard take Penny's mattress upstairs and she asks if it was hard to get it up the stairs. Sheldon is about to say "Yes!" but again he changes his answer to "No!" when he sees that's what Leonard is doing. Also notice how he immediately listens to Leonard when Leonard asks him to go apologize to Penny for getting into her apartment in the middle of the night. Then comes the "non-optional social convention/obligation". If I am not mistaken, it's in the episode Penny is trying to throw Leonard a birthday party. Howard tells Penny all she has to do is tell Sheldon "it's a non-optional social convention" to get him to do what is needed. And we see that it works on Sheldon, and he immediately changes his course of actions to adapt.

I think this all shows that he has always been aware of his lack of understanding of certain social protocols and situations and has trusted his friends and the people around him to point it out to him when he is being oblivious to those protocols and situations. Because he seems to know that there are certain social rituals you have to go through, whether you like it or not, to get by in society and in life.

But here is the problem.

While I appreciate his awareness of his weakness, and his willingness to trust his friends' advice and interpretations of social life, I think he and his friends take things too far sometimes. They have been for a few seasons now; to the point that Sheldon has become (or is shown to be) too naive in social life, always ending up "in the wrong". He is trusting his friends' "life lessons" too much IMO, while doubting his own intellect and POV in the matter. As taffinabean said, he is now needed to be told that he should be 'sad' at a funeral!

I hate how the show is completely tossing away and rejecting "intellect" as one of the viable tools/ways/methods to decipher the world around you. I am not forgetting that Sheldon has difficulty processing, understanding and expressing certain emotions and that intellect alone, intellect without the presence of emotions, cannot make a healthy human being, but suggesting that intellect has *nothing* to offer when it comes to everyday life is ridiculous IMO. Also, who says that the people who are giving Sheldon advice are emotionally healthy people themselves? They are far from it! But as SpaceAnjl said, it must be fun for them to have someone like Sheldon around to make them feel better about themselves and to help convince themselves that they understand so much about people, relationships and life in general.

Yes I agree and that is also my problem with it as well. Sheldon has always had difficulty understanding the signals we take for granted and he looks to others regularly to give him clues. But this is less about him making an inconvenient adjustment and more about him doubting himself and trying to be something he's not.

[Wisp]

Sheldon is now looking to the others for guidance, they have successfully damaged his sense of self. And these characters all had less confidence in themselves than he did. Now it's the other way round.

While I totally agree with you about the fact that Sheldon's confidence and his sense of self have been severely damaged in the recent seasons, I'd like to also point out that his seeking advice from others when it comes to dealing with social situations and interactions is something that has been a part of his character since day one. He has always had that vulnerability about him. In the very first episode, when Penny is in his and Leonard's apartment, she asks, "Will it be totally weird if I use your shower?", to which Sheldon replies "Yes!" but he quickly changes his answer to "No!" when he sees Leonard giving Penny a negative answer. The same happens in the second episode, when he and Leonard take Penny's mattress upstairs and she asks if it was hard to get it up the stairs. Sheldon is about to say "Yes!" but again he changes his answer to "No!" when he sees that's what Leonard is doing. Also notice how he immediately listens to Leonard when Leonard asks him to go apologize to Penny for getting into her apartment in the middle of the night. Then comes the "non-optional social convention/obligation". If I am not mistaken, it's in the episode Penny is trying to throw Leonard a birthday party. Howard tells Penny all she has to do is tell Sheldon "it's a non-optional social convention" to get him to do what is needed. And we see that it works on Sheldon, and he immediately changes his course of actions to adapt.

I think this all shows that he has always been aware of his lack of understanding of certain social protocols and situations and has trusted his friends and the people around him to point it out to him when he is being oblivious to those protocols and situations. Because he seems to know that there are certain social rituals you have to go through, whether you like it or not, to get by in society and in life.

But here is the problem.

While I appreciate his awareness of his weakness, and his willingness to trust his friends' advice and interpretations of social life, I think he and his friends take things too far sometimes. They have been for a few seasons now; to the point that Sheldon has become (or is shown to be) too naive in social life, always ending up "in the wrong". He is trusting his friends' "life lessons" too much IMO, while doubting his own intellect and POV in the matter. As taffinabean said, he is now needed to be told that he should be 'sad' at a funeral!

I hate how the show is completely tossing away and rejecting "intellect" as one of the viable tools/ways/methods to decipher the world around you. I am not forgetting that Sheldon has difficulty processing, understanding and expressing certain emotions and that intellect alone, intellect without the presence of emotions, cannot make a healthy human being, but suggesting that intellect has *nothing* to offer when it comes to everyday life is ridiculous IMO. Also, who says that the people who are giving Sheldon advice are emotionally healthy people themselves? They are far from it! But as SpaceAnjl said, it must be fun for them to have someone like Sheldon around to make them feel better about themselves and to help convince themselves that they understand so much about people, relationships and life in general.

Yes I agree and that is also my problem with it as well. Sheldon has always had difficulty understanding the signals we take for granted and he looks to others regularly to give him clues. But this is less about him making an inconvenient adjustment and more about him doubting himself and trying to be something he's not.

I would have been fine with Sheldon learning and using SOME benign civilities had the writers continued to write him gracefully. Now that he behaves like bloody Pee Wee Herman or something I am not willing to accept that he has learned anything of value from his friends. He could have learned empathy, but I think we never see the benefit from this because his behaviour is all over the place and he's mutated into a self-aware buffoon who has learned what rubs up people the wrong way and still does it regardless. With Old Sheldon, there was none of this for me, because he was lucid, and oblivious to any potential annoyance/offense he was causing.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

So true!! these days it feels like he's just being malicious. Previously, you could tell he was more inept, than petty. It made him so damn charming, even though irl no one could tolerate him.

[Nutz]

Even if they don't talk about it as much (considering he apparently can't read a table in a book correctly anymore) In the first 4 seasons they had Sheldon talk a lot about his eidetic memory. I can't imagine what that would do somebody growing up. To remember every drunken moment of your father, every prayer your mother made to god to make you normal, every "test" that was conducted when they thought you were crazy, every betrayal and hurtful comment like it had just happened.

---

So true!! these days it feels like he's just being malicious. Previously, you could tell he was more inept, than petty. It made him so damn charming, even though irl no one could tolerate him.

I completely agree, the charm of Sheldon was he really just didn't understand what he was saying or doing could be hurtful, he was just telling the truth as he saw it and there was no malicious intent by anything he said or did. Even his prank war with Penny was very innocent in how he got back at her.

It's funny, I was really looking forward to the episode where he "got back" at Leonard by making him wear that sweater, but at the end, all I felt was really sad.

[Wisp]

Even if they don't talk about it as much (considering he apparently can't read a table in a book correctly anymore) In the first 4 seasons they had Sheldon talk a lot about his eidetic memory. I can't imagine what that would do somebody growing up. To remember every drunken moment of your father, every prayer your mother made to god to make you normal, every "test" that was conducted when they thought you were crazy, every betrayal and hurtful comment like it had just happened.

---

So true!! these days it feels like he's just being malicious. Previously, you could tell he was more inept, than petty. It made him so damn charming, even though irl no one could tolerate him.

I completely agree, the charm of Sheldon was he really just didn't understand what he was saying or doing could be hurtful, he was just telling the truth as he saw it and there was no malicious intent by anything he said or did. Even his prank war with Penny was very innocent in how he got back at her.

It's funny, I was really looking forward to the episode where he "got back" at Leonard by making him wear that sweater, but at the end, all I felt was really sad.

I didn't watch that episode. I have only seen 2 of season 7, because when I watch these new episodes it results in the watching of three episodes of a more resilient comedy, followed by reflective moaning about the decline of Homo Novus with only my slightly irritated and similarly dissatisfied family as an audience. The whole sweater thing looked a bit... meh. I trust it was curiously unsatisfying, was it? It annoys me that The Radio Times continues to give the show glowing reviews, even referring to current "Sheldon" (Ha!) as a "LOL machine." Sometimes I wonder if I'm going mad.

[wellplayedpenny]

What is obvious to me is that the creators have somehow come up with a character that is beyond their capability to fully realize. As someone here said, Sheldon is a delicate creature. All of the quirks and nuances are a part of his character and therefore to go at them with the blunted ax of revision damages the character as a whole. Child-like has become childish, genius has been downgraded as he is no longer ‘one of the greatest minds of his generation’ but rather ‘the smartest person Leonard’s ever met’.

Great comedic characters (imo) rely on more than slapstick and ba-dum-dum jokes or even sarcasm. Inspecteur Clouseau and Frank Drebin carry off even the silliest of humour because they act earnestly and, most importantly, with dignity. Sheldon Cooper is no different with his difficulties in social interaction. No matter what early seasons Sheldon says or does his actions are sincere, a lot of the time selfish but not *stupid*. Later season Sheldon with his inability to determine the mood at a funeral without help is sloppy writing. But of course the writers are able to overcome their shortcomings because they are ultimately in charge of what and how the characters choose to remember scenes. In a fanciful sense, maybe Sheldon is cracking under the pressure of having his eidetic memory continually undermined by the reordering of the show’s reality. It’s the only way to explain how he can look at the ever-changing Amy and say that he likes her ‘just the way she is’. Ultimately Sheldon is a tragedy to me because as wonderful and awesome as he is he’s ultimately the thrall of the creator. Still, it doesn’t mean that I can’t dream and write a better fate for him. I'm always going for the underdog, even if in this instance it makes me a 'whackadoodle'.

[Wisp]

What is obvious to me is that the creators have somehow come up with a character that is beyond their capability to fully realize. As someone here said, Sheldon is a delicate creature. All of the quirks and nuances are a part of his character and therefore to go at them with the blunted ax of revision damages the character as a whole. Child-like has become childish, genius has been downgraded as he is no longer ‘one of the greatest minds of his generation’ but rather ‘the smartest person Leonard’s ever met’.

Great comedic characters (imo) rely on more than slapstick and ba-dum-dum jokes or even sarcasm. Inspecteur Clouseau and Frank Drebin carry off even the silliest of humour because they act earnestly and, most importantly, with dignity. Sheldon Cooper is no different with his difficulties in social interaction. No matter what early seasons Sheldon says or does his actions are sincere, a lot of the time selfish but not *stupid*. Later season Sheldon with his inability to determine the mood at a funeral without help is sloppy writing. But of course the writers are able to overcome their shortcomings because they are ultimately in charge of what and how the characters choose to remember scenes. In a fanciful sense, maybe Sheldon is cracking under the pressure of having his eidetic memory continually undermined by the reordering of the show’s reality. It’s the only way to explain how he can look at the ever-changing Amy and say that he likes her ‘just the way she is’. Ultimately Sheldon is a tragedy to me because as wonderful and awesome as he is he’s ultimately the thrall of the creator. Still, it doesn’t mean that I can’t dream and write a better fate for him. I'm always going for the underdog, even if in this instance it makes me a 'whackadoodle'.

THIS

It's what I've always said. It seems to be impossible for the writers on this bloody show to maintain credible, sympathetic, genuine characters with an equal balance of pathos and humour. That's why I can no longer watch the new episodes and give a shit. Because Sheldon, in particular, has been stripped of his charm and straight-character role. The comedy shows I invest the most time and emotion into are those that tackle more than ba-dum-tish punchlines and smut; the shows in which there are tragic figures, or just characters who are genuine and have a strong sense of self. Their approach to Sheldon's delicate character has been so ham-handed lately that I'm in danger of removing TBBT from my all-time list of favourite shows, because thay just have not kept up the standard they set for themselves in the first place.

---

Sheldon used to be on a knife's edge between madness and brilliance and the arrogance just came with the mix. But they have taken that away. Instead of being brilliant - Leonard who he once called derivative, is disproving his work and instead of being mad - he's kind of flaky. The only reason to do any of this is to improve Leonard's profile. Now Leonard is super successful and Sheldon is a nutcase who thinks he's better than everyone else when he's not. It also makes Amy look righteous in her constant nudging for him to change.

I think Sheldon has been a victim of his own success in a way. He was too powerful for the show, he still is. Jim is still magnificent and so they have to keep propping up the other characters. They also do some of this to Penny.

Yes, I'm happy with that. Jim's too good for the show.

Writer 1: Time to start writing season 5. Shit. What are we going to do with Sheldon? He's so difficult to write.

Writer 2: Well, we have the fall-back girlfriend arc. We could chuck the girlfriend story line in and it might make Sheldon easier to write for... What were we playing at, eh? I think we overestimated our writing skills, and our audience. They don't want an arrogant bastard like Sheldon sabotaging the other characters' happiness in every episode, do they?

Writer 1: Don't you think that would be a bit of an easy way out?

Writer 2: *Holds gun to head*

Writer 1: Fine.

And Writer 1 was fired the very next day.

I actually sort of want Jim to pull out of the show or something... The fact that he too seems oblivious to the decline of his own character is unsettling to me. That's what's bugging me: WHY CAN'T ANYONE SEE IT? (or maybe they can but don't want to complain about the show that provides their income) I'd love to see Jim in something else, playing a completely different character, so my faith in his acting skills can return.

[Wisp]

So true!! these days it feels like he's just being malicious. Previously, you could tell he was more inept, than petty. It made him so damn charming, even though irl no one could tolerate him.

Yes, in the golden days of the show, if Sheldon cocked something up I'd still be on his side going: "Aww, leave him alone. He didn't mean it in that way." Now I'm just thinking "SHUT THE FUCK UP, SHELDON." The first time I noticed this shift in his character was in the episode featuring Leonard's school bully. Horrendous episode, horrendous revelation about Sheldon's weird personality shift. I suddenly thought: "Hang on. He's actually being a straight up annoying dick in this episode."

[Tuesday Pajamas]

What is obvious to me is that the creators have somehow come up with a character that is beyond their capability to fully realize. As someone here said, Sheldon is a delicate creature. All of the quirks and nuances are a part of his character and therefore to go at them with the blunted ax of revision damages the character as a whole. Child-like has become childish, genius has been downgraded as he is no longer ‘one of the greatest minds of his generation’ but rather ‘the smartest person Leonard’s ever met’.

Great comedic characters (imo) rely on more than slapstick and ba-dum-dum jokes or even sarcasm. Inspecteur Clouseau and Frank Drebin carry off even the silliest of humour because they act earnestly and, most importantly, with dignity. Sheldon Cooper is no different with his difficulties in social interaction. No matter what early seasons Sheldon says or does his actions are sincere, a lot of the time selfish but not *stupid*. Later season Sheldon with his inability to determine the mood at a funeral without help is sloppy writing. But of course the writers are able to overcome their shortcomings because they are ultimately in charge of what and how the characters choose to remember scenes. In a fanciful sense, maybe Sheldon is cracking under the pressure of having his eidetic memory continually undermined by the reordering of the show’s reality. It’s the only way to explain how he can look at the ever-changing Amy and say that he likes her ‘just the way she is’. Ultimately Sheldon is a tragedy to me because as wonderful and awesome as he is he’s ultimately the thrall of the creator. Still, it doesn’t mean that I can’t dream and write a better fate for him. I'm always going for the underdog, even if in this instance it makes me a 'whackadoodle'.

The truth in this observation is impossible to deny.


There are talented writers on this show and I am convinced they know all this. Yet they are under 'orders' to complete this sad destructive story. Money is talking here, definitely not art.