and BAM! Howard Wolowitz

[ricardo shillyshally]

There were a whole herd of mind swap films, not sure I saw any of them. But with Occulus Rift it would be possible to see what someone else does. I think it would be great if Howard and Penny saw each others world view for a day!

[Louise]

There were a whole herd of mind swap films, not sure I saw any of them.

Oh, a Freaky Friday type of scenario with *any* of the characters would be lots of fun

---

I wouldn't have been *hugely* upset if they'd cut back on the flirty/sexual stuff, a bit, as long as Howard was still lively and fun. IMO the flirty/sexual thing was only one part of Classic!Howard's personality, not the whole of it.

As I've said many times before, IMO the show had already cooled it a bit with the "oversexed Howard" concept by the end of S2...then the Bernadette storyline begins and they start making him really infantile. It wasn't until S5 or S6 that we heard about H. being *really* child-like and helpless: other people cutting his food, his Mom taking him to the dentist, etc.

I've never once been offended by the flirty/sexual stuff. That joke about H. giving Penny a teddy bear with a webcam in it was rather dark*, but I can occasionally get behind some dark humor if it's well-done, and that scene is pretty funny, even though it's all about getting back together with B. (WHY? WHAT FOR? )

That scene where Howard touches/rubs Penny's feet is cute, but I find it VERY hard to believe that he wouldn't find that situation exciting and titillating at all. Yes, it's nice if they can interact without tension or conflict, it's nice if they can just be friends and not over-react in each other's presence...but you're telling me he didn't find that sexy AT ALL? I'm surprised she allowed him to do that. Even if he learned to control himself around her, I don't buy that he would just completely stop viewing her in a sexual way, like he's got an off-switch. How many people let their friends, of any gender, rub their feet? IDK, odd. This is what I mean about later-season scenes that are cute at first glance, but the more you think about them, the less sense they make.

Like PJ said, Classic!Howard is harmless. I don't believe for an instant that he'd ever harm a woman or do something truly malicious towards her. This idea of "Creepy Howard" has become kind of a pop-culture meme with little connection to the actual show. When I'm working on my fanfic, I almost feel like I have to make Howard *more* creepy/oversexed than he actually was, just to make it clear that this is Classic!Howard I'm writing about, not Mr. "I'm a better man now." (Ick.)

What boggles my mind is that it's apparently okay for Amy to be attracted to toddlers (and invertebrates!) but Howard saying something like "You look ravishing today" was nasty and perverted and disgusting. Okaaaayyy, then. And yes, there are a couple instances of retconning where they try to make it seem like Old!Howard was worse than he actually was.

ETA: Oh, I love Eyepatch-and-Pimp!Shoes Howard XD And that sort of nasally-sounding delivery is an Old!Howard thing. He sounds different now. He just sounds like SH being Sincere™

ETA again: and yeah, Julien Blanc is a scumbag. His website is super-ridiculous, too.

*I also think this show had a lot of throwaway lines that weren't meant to be taken literally. Early!BBT is kind of a broad, exagerrated, whimsically grotesque world. Then, the later seasons get very heavy-handed with this stuff. And the introduction of B. marks the start of BBT 2.0, to me. Nothing after that is completely "real", for me.

[Trust No One]

Oh, a Freaky Friday type of scenario with *any* of the characters would be lots of fun

---

I wouldn't have been *hugely* upset if they'd cut back on the flirty/sexual stuff, a bit, as long as Howard was still lively and fun. IMO the flirty/sexual thing was only one part of Classic!Howard's personality, not the whole of it.

As I've said many times before, IMO the show had already cooled it a bit with the "oversexed Howard" concept by the end of S2...then the Bernadette storyline begins and they start making him really infantile. It wasn't until S5 or S6 that we heard about H. being *really* child-like and helpless: other people cutting his food, his Mom taking him to the dentist, etc.

I've never once been offended by the flirty/sexual stuff. That joke about H. giving Penny a teddy bear with a webcam in it was rather dark*, but I can occasionally get behind some dark humor if it's well-done, and that scene is pretty funny, even though it's all about getting back together with B. (WHY? WHAT FOR? )

That scene where Howard touches/rubs Penny's feet is cute, but I find it VERY hard to believe that he wouldn't find that situation exciting and titillating at all. Yes, it's nice if they can interact without tension or conflict, it's nice if they can just be friends and not over-react in each other's presence...but you're telling me he didn't find that sexy AT ALL? I'm surprised she allowed him to do that. Even if he learned to control himself around her, I don't buy that he would just completely stop viewing her in a sexual way, like he's got an off-switch. How many people let their friends, of any gender, rub their feet? IDK, odd. This is what I mean about later-season scenes that are cute at first glance, but the more you think about them, the less sense they make.

Like PJ said, Classic!Howard is harmless. I don't believe for an instant that he'd ever harm a woman or do something truly malicious towards her. This idea of "Creepy Howard" has become kind of a pop-culture meme with little connection to the actual show. When I'm working on my fanfic, I almost feel like I have to make Howard *more* creepy/oversexed than he actually was, just to make it clear that this is Classic!Howard I'm writing about, not Mr. "I'm a better man now." (Ick.)

What boggles my mind is that it's apparently okay for Amy to be attracted to toddlers (and invertebrates!) but Howard saying something like "You look ravishing today" was nasty and perverted and disgusting. Okaaaayyy, then. And yes, there are a couple instances of retconning where they try to make it seem like Old!Howard was worse than he actually was.

ETA: Oh, I love Eyepatch-and-Pimp!Shoes Howard XD And that sort of nasally-sounding delivery is an Old!Howard thing. He sounds different now. He just sounds like SH being Sincere™

ETA again: and yeah, Julien Blanc is a scumbag. His website is super-ridiculous, too.

*I also think this show had a lot of throwaway lines that weren't meant to be taken literally. Early!BBT is kind of a broad, exagerrated, whimsically grotesque world. Then, the later seasons get very heavy-handed with this stuff. And the introduction of B. marks the start of BBT 2.0, to me. Nothing after that is completely "real", for me.

I agree Louise. That whole scene with Howard rubbing Penny's feet seemed very off to me. Have a hard time believing Penny would allow that and Howard would not find that sexual. TPTB just ruined the characters and the fun of the show to be forced into a lousy rom/com.

[Louise]

I agree Louise. That whole scene with Howard rubbing Penny's feet seemed very off to me. Have a hard time believing Penny would allow that and Howard would not find that sexual. TPTB just ruined the characters and the fun of the show to be forced into a lousy rom/com.

Well, I think he's as cute as can be, but she clearly has poor taste, sooo....

[ricardo shillyshally]

I disagree, partially. I think they play alot on Howard's confusion; mother=woman. Actually I did find it funny when MR hammed it up, and pretended to be a Jewish mother(that's Howard's curse, a cliched Jewish mother!). So I didn't see anything sexual in him filing Penny's feet (this is not a Marcellus Wallace type scenario). He did it just like he'd do his mother's. Actually I think Penny is the one who enjoys it. It strikes me how clueless the guys were about dating and relationships; that's why Howard reads and studies up on dating, same as Sheldon reads about human relations, or he extrapolates from animal behaviour. He tried asking H and R> 'Raj: Well, if you want to guarantee his appeal to Stephanie, your best bet would be to kill all the other men on the planet.
Howard: I’ll tell you what you shouldn’t do. Don’t spritz him with that body spray from the commercial where the women undress when they smell it, that doesn’t work at all, no matter how much you put on.
Sheldon: So, that’s all you’ve got? Apocalyptic genocide and go easy on the cologne?' I think Penny should have coached them on dating.

[Louise]

IDK. It *is* a cute scene, and I like it, and it shows Howard's odd type of innocence, it's just slightly incongruous to me that there are so many other scenes where P. wants nothing to do with him, and then she lets him touch her. Or that he was so fixated on her, and then he's totally unaffected by having this physical closeness with her.

[Trust No One]

IDK. It *is* a cute scene, and I like it, and it shows Howard's odd type of innocence, it's just slightly incongruous to me that there are so many other scenes where P. wants nothing to do with him, and then she lets him touch her. Or that he was so fixated on her, and then he's totally unaffected by having this physical closeness with her.

I still found the scene very odd and not fitting in with what we know of the characters.

[ricardo shillyshally]

It's interesting to see Howard acting just like Sheldon, he gets anxious because Penny isn't filing correctly. But then I think he just switches into one of those modes of behaviour we all have, where we do something in remote mode, automatically. Different viewpoints, all right!

[SpaceAnJL]

I think if Penny injured herself around Howard, he would automatically fall into a caregiver role without thinking about it, and without any innuendo or ulterior motive. He's used to taking care of his mother, to a slightly unhealthy degree, but he has a definite set of behaviours that belong to 'devoted son' rather than 'hopeful opportunist'.

(I've said it before, but I see Howard as someone who you could turn down, and he wouldn't hold a grudge about it, you could still talk to him afterwards. Whereas Leonard strikes me as the type to strand someone without cab fare if he didn't get what he felt he 'deserved' on a date. And I'd feel safer accepting a drink from Howard, too.)

[Louise]

I think if Penny injured herself around Howard, he would automatically fall into a caregiver role without thinking about it, and without any innuendo or ulterior motive. He's used to taking care of his mother, to a slightly unhealthy degree, but he has a definite set of behaviours that belong to 'devoted son' rather than 'hopeful opportunist'.

I agree with this. I may have even seen this in fanfic, once or twice.