12-21-2014, 12:55 PM
This is a good post, and I had to re-read it several times, because it really gets-at some deeper issues.
Agreed. I am not opposed to the idea of romantic Shenny; I really have no feelings one way or the other about that, but fortunately fanfiction exists, so that we can explore relationships outside the bounds of the show itself.
Yes, that would be a very triumphant ending for Sheldon and for the show; to have his efforts acknowledged.
This is a key point. I don't see any HQers whining because some minor plot-point didn't go their way. This isn't about wanting the show to conform to our every whim. Any TV show (or other piece of media) is going to have parts I like, and parts I don't like, and I accept that. I don't see any Nostalgics throwing a tantrum because they wanted XYZ and they didn't get it. It's not even about pairings or about "who ends up with who", really. Again, if I want alternative pairings, that's what fanfiction is for.
If they'd somehow managed to introduce all these pairings without changing the personalities of the characters, I'd be complaining less, although I'd still be very skeptical. (but these pairings are inherently flawed and unworkable, so in order for them to work, they'd have to be very different, to the point where we're no longer talking about the same thing.)
It's about the destruction of the characters. It's because this outcome is not possible without warping, twisting, inverting, and dismantling the personalities of the characters. It's not a realistic outcome.
Exactly. Like I've said before, someone who had only seen S1 and S2 would never, ever, ever predict the events of S5 onward. They simply wouldn't. They'd be incredulous when you told them. To someone who had only seen S1, the events of S8 would sound like some kind of SNL parody of the show.
This stuff simply does not compute. The stuff we're seeing now is not the natural result of the stuff we saw previously.
You expressed it better than I can, but these events ring false, in terms of logic and storytelling. It's cheating. It's a bait-and-switch, and people who expect the storytellers to "play fair" feel like we've been tricked, now.
We know what a coherent, believable, cogent story-arc looks like, and this ain't it.
Whoever likened TPTB to children playing with dolls is right: they're just arbitrarily moving things around. As we've all observed, the characters are being made to fit the plot, rather than having plots which flow naturally from the characters.
Personally, my biggest issue is that I don't like seeing the characters be humiliated, belittled, and portrayed in a largely negative light, as if their faults and weaknesses outweigh their strengths and good points. Also, the faults and weaknesses they have now are *different in nature* from the ones they had in S1/S2. There's been a lot of inconsistency and blatant retconning. It's not about "my fave character is a perfect precious angel and can do no wrong", it's about he/she wouldn't do these things we're seeing now. You won't get (much) argument from me if you say that Howard behaves strangely around women, but you sure will if you say he's lazy and stupid and deserves to have bad things happen to him. Real!Sheldon would be difficult to be around (I'm a little scared of him, TBH), but he's not racist and crude. I'm not a huge follower of Penny, but she knows how to use glue. And wasn't there an episode about her stealing from a charity?? Yikes. I could see her maybe taking home some food from the CCF, but not outright stealing.
And while we don't want to watch the characters being unduly mean, we don't want to see them being generically "nice" in ways that are out of character, either. These characters had a bit of an edge to them; they're not cutesy and sentimental. The difference between cute and cutesy is one of those "I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it" things. Like Gripe said in a post comparing this recent Christmas episode to Bath Item, it's about *specificity.* If these characters wanted to do something nice, they'd do it in their own unique and quirky way, not in a Hallmark type of way. And no, throwing in a few sci-fi references doesn't cut it. Howard giving what's-her-face a star necklace gags me. (when did he get hip to these conventionally romantic gestures, and if he's able to behave in a conventionally romantic way, then why did he have so much trouble with women, in the first place???)
I don't know what stage I'm in. I regard S3 or 4 onward as a separate canon, some type of re-boot or re-make, just as there are different versions of Batman or James Bond or any other franchise. Lately, the show itself actually bothers me less than the destruction of the characters' legacy. I don't want the public at large to remember these characters *this way* and view them *this way.* Like I said in another post, it's almost like trying to prevent a friend from embarassing themselves, and that's a painful feeling. What upsets me is that other people are seeing the characters in this negative light, and remembering them that way.
Quote:Regardless, I still maintain that it is unnecessary, and a violation of the character’s original integrity to involve him in romance at all.
Agreed. I am not opposed to the idea of romantic Shenny; I really have no feelings one way or the other about that, but fortunately fanfiction exists, so that we can explore relationships outside the bounds of the show itself.
Quote:Could a man who is an outsider by virtue of his intellect, one day not be hallowed for it, and raised upon the shoulders of the crowd? That is another feasible poetic truth.
Yes, that would be a very triumphant ending for Sheldon and for the show; to have his efforts acknowledged.
Quote:However, beyond that and regardless of occupation, there seems a genuine despair at these characters’ trajectories. Not simply because they are in discordance with our wishes, (that would not cause such festering grievances) but perhaps because they are inherently untruthful, and thereby going against some greater artistic principle.
This is a key point. I don't see any HQers whining because some minor plot-point didn't go their way. This isn't about wanting the show to conform to our every whim. Any TV show (or other piece of media) is going to have parts I like, and parts I don't like, and I accept that. I don't see any Nostalgics throwing a tantrum because they wanted XYZ and they didn't get it. It's not even about pairings or about "who ends up with who", really. Again, if I want alternative pairings, that's what fanfiction is for.
If they'd somehow managed to introduce all these pairings without changing the personalities of the characters, I'd be complaining less, although I'd still be very skeptical. (but these pairings are inherently flawed and unworkable, so in order for them to work, they'd have to be very different, to the point where we're no longer talking about the same thing.)
It's about the destruction of the characters. It's because this outcome is not possible without warping, twisting, inverting, and dismantling the personalities of the characters. It's not a realistic outcome.
Quote:an improper fate.
Exactly. Like I've said before, someone who had only seen S1 and S2 would never, ever, ever predict the events of S5 onward. They simply wouldn't. They'd be incredulous when you told them. To someone who had only seen S1, the events of S8 would sound like some kind of SNL parody of the show.
This stuff simply does not compute. The stuff we're seeing now is not the natural result of the stuff we saw previously.
You expressed it better than I can, but these events ring false, in terms of logic and storytelling. It's cheating. It's a bait-and-switch, and people who expect the storytellers to "play fair" feel like we've been tricked, now.
We know what a coherent, believable, cogent story-arc looks like, and this ain't it.
Whoever likened TPTB to children playing with dolls is right: they're just arbitrarily moving things around. As we've all observed, the characters are being made to fit the plot, rather than having plots which flow naturally from the characters.
Personally, my biggest issue is that I don't like seeing the characters be humiliated, belittled, and portrayed in a largely negative light, as if their faults and weaknesses outweigh their strengths and good points. Also, the faults and weaknesses they have now are *different in nature* from the ones they had in S1/S2. There's been a lot of inconsistency and blatant retconning. It's not about "my fave character is a perfect precious angel and can do no wrong", it's about he/she wouldn't do these things we're seeing now. You won't get (much) argument from me if you say that Howard behaves strangely around women, but you sure will if you say he's lazy and stupid and deserves to have bad things happen to him. Real!Sheldon would be difficult to be around (I'm a little scared of him, TBH), but he's not racist and crude. I'm not a huge follower of Penny, but she knows how to use glue. And wasn't there an episode about her stealing from a charity?? Yikes. I could see her maybe taking home some food from the CCF, but not outright stealing.
And while we don't want to watch the characters being unduly mean, we don't want to see them being generically "nice" in ways that are out of character, either. These characters had a bit of an edge to them; they're not cutesy and sentimental. The difference between cute and cutesy is one of those "I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it" things. Like Gripe said in a post comparing this recent Christmas episode to Bath Item, it's about *specificity.* If these characters wanted to do something nice, they'd do it in their own unique and quirky way, not in a Hallmark type of way. And no, throwing in a few sci-fi references doesn't cut it. Howard giving what's-her-face a star necklace gags me. (when did he get hip to these conventionally romantic gestures, and if he's able to behave in a conventionally romantic way, then why did he have so much trouble with women, in the first place???)
Quote:Like Ricardo, I am in the bargaining stage.
I don't know what stage I'm in. I regard S3 or 4 onward as a separate canon, some type of re-boot or re-make, just as there are different versions of Batman or James Bond or any other franchise. Lately, the show itself actually bothers me less than the destruction of the characters' legacy. I don't want the public at large to remember these characters *this way* and view them *this way.* Like I said in another post, it's almost like trying to prevent a friend from embarassing themselves, and that's a painful feeling. What upsets me is that other people are seeing the characters in this negative light, and remembering them that way.