Relationships

[Nutz]

The whole mama's boy (man child) characterization is way over blown by The Canonists. He was the man of the house after his father left and he did go to and graduated from MIT (a school almost 3,000 miles from his home) This proves that he didn't HAVE to be tied to his mother. I always thought Howard came home to help his mother pay the bills, not cause he needed someone to baby him.

Of course I also believed by some of Howards statements about his mom yelling at him for eating pork, going to Temple, and dating a Jewish girl that his mother was actually Practicing Judaism, of course that didn't stop TPTB from cremating her for a cheap joke.

[devilbk]

Nutz, you need to remember that The Canonists tend to pick and choose what is canon. They don't believe that Amy did the stapler licking because it doesn't fit into their worldview. They don't believe that Howard was a good son who helped his mother for the same reasons. They need to believe that Bernadette made him a better person and that means he had to be a bad person before. They need to believe that Amy and Sheldon belong together so Sheldon had to be worthless before. They need to believe that Leonard deserves Penny so every lousy thing he's done never happened. Canon is a movable feast for them. When we point out canonic inconsistency or prove that things didn't happen as they want to believe they did they cover their ears and scream "Sheldon told Amy he loves her".

[Louise]

The whole mama's boy (man child) characterization is way over blown by The Canonists. He was the man of the house after his father left and he did go to and graduated from MIT (a school almost 3,000 miles from his home) This proves that he didn't HAVE to be tied to his mother. I always thought Howard came home to help his mother pay the bills, not cause he needed someone to baby him.

I saw someone on IMDB say that Howard "just kept taking and taking and taking everything from his mother." What show were they watching??? He takes care of her just as much as she takes care of him. Mrs. W is irrational and had increasingly poor health. There's no way she could manage that house and all the bills and errands and such without help. Howard was always driving her somewhere or picking her up. Canonists seem to think that she was financially supporting him; that he was living off her.

Well, Mrs.W is never mentioned as having a job, and his Dad wasn't contributing, so what does that leave us with? It's far likelier that Howard was supporting both of them. Maybe Mrs.W had Social Security or a pension of some kind, but Howard was def. helping. The organization and running of that house was up to him. His dependence on her is emotional/psychological, not actual. Mrs.W was not an easy person to deal with; I'd say Howard definitely earned those waffles and chocolate milk. It wasn't completely a joke when he insisted that "I don't live with her, she lives with me." That was true, to some degree. Which makes it all the more unjust and outrageous that *his* house now apparently belongs to Bernadette. TBH, early on, I thought that the joke was that Mrs.W was a bit senile. Not a very nice joke, but this is Lorre we're talking about. Howard was actually very responsible. He *had* to be; there was no other way.

My preferred Alternate Universe theory is that Mr.W did not leave the family when Howard was 11, (was maybe emotionally detached but not literally absent), and that Howard's dad died while he was away at college, and this is what prompted Howard to come home again and take care of his mother. This is an idea that people were discussing on Livejournal prior to S3 when the "Howard's long-lost daddy" storyline was introduced. I think it makes SO MUCH SENSE in every way: plot-wise, character-wise, psychologically. I know that idea's been thoroughly jossed, but it's still my headcanon. Maybe I'm cherry-picking like Dev described below; but that Letter episode is corny as f*ck and I believe H's dad is dead or completely out of the picture, and that he abandoned his family in more of an emotional sense than a literal sense.

I like the word Canonists, btw. It's clearer than saying "Canons."

[devilbk]

Canonistas might be even better.

[Louise]

Things to cherish and be happy about:

[ricardo shillyshally]

I'm starting to think that the only relationships that work are, where no one tells the truth completely. You see it all the time in BB. Characters, and people would rather endure protracted subterfuge, than openly express themselves. And that's the basic idea behind sit coms! Also I think people are usually a bit scared of someone who seems perfect for them.

[JustMyLuckiness]

I compared it a while ago to taping a sporting event to watch later, but before you get to watch it you find out that your team lost. So why bother watching it if you already know you're going to be disappointed in the end? That's what TBBT is to me now. We KNOW that AFF will conquer Sheldon. We KNOW that Leonard and Penny will get married. We KNOW everyone will be happily coupled up when the show ends.

But that's what the canons seem to want. It's comfortable to them. They can pretend to get all upset over the predictable breakups/makeups/crises that will be served up in the next three seasons, but they KNOW they're going to get what they want in the end.

The show is now almost exclusively about the status of the relationships at the expense of the unique, fresh, intelligent, witty dialogue that characterized the original show.

Love your whole post except for one minor thing...

With Howard's continuing emasculation at the hands of an increasingly dislikeable Bernadette, Leonard's jealous manipulation and monopolization of Penny's entire life, and Amy's borderline abuse of Sheldon, I can't see how *any* of these couples could be considered 'happy'.

[Louise]

"It would be a lot easier if rescuer types would just say outright, “I think you’d be better if you did things my way, meaning I don’t accept you as you are or respect the choices you made to get there.” But they never do others that favor, do they — instead, someone who wants to fix you generally will present that disrespect as loving concern."

--Carolyn Hax. 


The whole post is fairly relevant: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle...src=nl_hax

I also liked this part:  "Wanting to be our best selves is noble and important, yes — when it’s our idea. When someone else wants it of us, it’s just a tarted-up form of control."

[Louise]

Found online, with no particular source: 



A "self-aware" person will, unless it's an emergency where every split second counts, slow down and move around you, because they notice you and know that their need to get where they're going is not more important than you being uninjured.

A "self-centered" person will knock into you as they go past. They don't want to hurt you and will feel bad if they do, but they were too caught up in their own issues to notice you were there.

A "selfish" person will knock into you as they go past, because they noticed you were there, and have no desire to hurt you, but think getting where they need to be is more important than any harm done.

A "sadistic" person will knock into you as they go past because they think seeing you fall down is funny.

[Nutz]

Found online, with no particular source: 



A "self-aware" person will, unless it's an emergency where every split second counts, slow down and move around you, because they notice you and know that their need to get where they're going is not more important than you being uninjured.

A "self-centered" person will knock into you as they go past. They don't want to hurt you and will feel bad if they do, but they were too caught up in their own issues to notice you were there.

A "selfish" person will knock into you as they go past, because they noticed you were there, and have no desire to hurt you, but think getting where they need to be is more important than any harm done.

A "sadistic" person will knock into you as they go past because they think seeing you fall down is funny.

It's funny if you put this list towards the characters in season 2 and then compare them to season nines characters, I don't think the term "growth" can be used (unless you think selfish, sadistic is better then self aware, self-centered)

I would have said vintage Penny, Raj, Leonard and Howard were "self aware" with minor dips into "self-centered" of course most people (modern Canonists) would say Sheldon was "selfish" but considering how socially clueless he was, I would put him in the self-centered" with dips into "self aware"