Multi-shipping

[Louise]

Okay, this rant has been brewing in my mind for a while, and I will try to write it carefully, because I might come off seeming narrow-minded or seeming like I'm telling other people what they can/can't ship, and that's not my intention. It's a sensitive subject. Anyway, here goes:

I find "multi-shippers" irritating. And when I say "multi-shippers", I mean people who make statements like "I ship Sheldon/Penny...and Sheldon/Amy, and Penny/Leonard, and Penny/Stuart, and Sheldon/Leonard, and Leonard/Amy, Stuart/Raj, Raj/Howard, Raj/Penny, Penny/Leonard/Sheldon and Penny/Amy/Sheldon and Leslie/Penny and yadda-yadda-yadda-yadda."

The characters are not interchangeable. "I ship each and every character with each and every other character" is not a ship. If you just enjoy reading/writing shippy scenarios and you're not picky about which characters are involved, fair enough, but at least be honest about it. Each and every character has a fascinating sexual and interpersonal chemistry with each and every other character? No.

Now, please let me clarify. I like unusual ships. I like slash. I like (and prefer, obviously) non-canon ships. This is not a question of canon versus non-canon. I do not presume to tell other people what they can or can't ship, although, like everyone here, I think some ships are unpleasant or unconvincing or incompatible, and I'll say so.

Putting all the characters together in a blender is not a ship. If someone was honest enough to say "I just like reading/writing porn and I'm not particular about which pairings are featured", that's legit. "I ship Shenny but I also find Shamy interesting" would likewise be a legit statement. "I ship Sheldon/Penny and Leonard/Penny and Sheldon/Amy" is a nonsensical statement. Something like "I find all of those possible ships equally interesting" would be a more logical way of putting it.

Maybe the definition of the term "ship" is changing and I'm not aware of it, but I was under the impression that when you say "I ship X and Y", you mean that those two characters are the *most compatible* and their relationship is the most positive or the most exciting or the most entertaining, compared to the other options.

Yes, yes, there are countless possible universes, like Sheldon told us. Yes, people can write or ship whatever they want. But "I ship it" means that the pairing in question is *superior to the other options, in your opinion.* It means you feel invested in that pairing. "I ship everyone with everyone" is meaningless.

Again, I know this might make me sound narrow-minded or grouchy. If there's a pairing that doesn't work well in canon and someone wants to make it work better in fanfiction, good for them. Go for it. But I am not impressed with people who seem to just toss random combinations of characters into sexual situations like they're pulling names out of a hat....

It just seems show-offy and silly, like "Look what I can do!!!"

The characters are not interchangeable. If they were, then the canon ships wouldn't be as awful as they are.

ETA: I am not arguing against obscure pairings. If you want to ship Captain Sweatpants/Katee Sackhoff, be my guest. But "I ship Shenny and Shamy and these two things can co-exist and are equally valid in my mind" is, at best, a rather strange attitude. It's almost like you're unwilling to express a strong and definite opinion. It's like you're hedging your bets, like "Well, I ship everything, so nobody can disagree with me or criticize me, because I've got all my bases covered."

[Idle Miscreant]

It’s certainly an interesting topic.

As I am ceaselessly regurgitating, I am not a romantic, and find romantic plotlines generally predictable, cheap, shallow, dull…any number of charming things. Exceptions being Evgeny Onegin by Pushkin, which of course is not so much romantic as a horrific cock-up of romance. Ditto Tale of Two Cities.

I find friendships or even the antagonistic rivalry of two people far more interesting.

That said, if the people themselves are interesting, then I will happily read/contemplate ANY variations on their relationship, up to and including the romantic.

Case in point – Penny and Sheldon. I find their interplay on the show endlessly fascinating, the odd clash of the ascetic and the hedonist, the Dionysian and Apollonian (in fact everything I waffled on about here http://www.shennyhq.com/#!philosophical/ce68) and I would be content to watch this platonically continue for countless seasons.

I am one of those who thinks that for artistic and comedic purposes it is better to have Sheldon remain solitary and asexual. Which is not to say he couldn’t have amusing “flings” on his own terms, with a variety of characters even, but not to the extent that it warps his OWN character, and dictates ALL his future plots and paths.

As we frequently mention, the speculation about Sheldon has gone from “When will he win the Nobel prize/go mad/poison Pasadena” etc, to merely “When will he have sex”, which is a dismal and vulgar diminishment of his character’s potential. This has come solely through his permanent attachment to a single figure, whose avowed purpose is to marry and bed the fucker, in whatever order. Who does NOT encourage his eccentricities, dismisses his passions, complains constantly about his lack of attention, and yet will not let him go. Making every episode they’re together akin to watching a bird struggle in an oil slick. There is SO MUCH MISERY to be bogged down in.

IF they must put Sheldon in a romantic relationship, so a certain segment of women in the audience can pretend to be dating Jim Parsons, then it must be with someone who doesn’t alter his essential nature, or wish to.

To be clear, I don’t think sex itself is antithetical to Sheldon’s character, but I think conventional romance, of the kind repeatedly expected by Amy, IS.

Most of all, and my greatest problem with the S/A relationship is its TEPIDITY. It is half-arsed, indifferent, glacial and tortuous. It is also joyless, which is my second major problem with it. Barring one (deeply cherished by certain fans) game of counterfactuals, one session of FWF (which he also filmed with Wheaton and Penny) and one meme experiment back when they were still (rightly) friends, their time together is depicted as an arduous slog, with Amy unhappy, and Sheldon checking his watch, metaphorically.

Sheldon is above all a creature of extremes. He is passionate, volatile, highly emotional (whatever he says about it). IF he has to be in a relationship, his very nature dictates that he would fall in love equally passionately, ridiculously, excessively.
I find his indifference to Amy offensive and unnatural, as it were. Not that I can blame him. In her current state she doesn’t inspire anything other than apathy in me either.

How the fuck did I get onto this…Ah yes. SO, bearing all this in mind, when asked WHO Sheldon should be put with (put with because they’re not real) who won’t disrupt his intrinsic nature, then I’d say Penny, obviously.

She baffles him, baits and antagonises him, but she also challenges him (yet doesn’t demand that he change), and unfailingly looks after him when he’s ill, is his bridge to reality, and, I hesitate to use the word because it makes me squirm, but is tender towards him in way no other character is. They haven’t decided to make them in love with each other, but if they DID wish to, it would have been easy to push them in that direction, preferably around the third season. They could still do it now. Give me a full season and I could write the damn thing myself. Most of us here could.

So, yes, hypothetically I “ship” Penny and Sheldon, in that I think she’s the best possible choice for his character (AND for hers, but that’s a whole different topic) whilst maintaining that Sheldon should be single on the show itself.

However, on your topic of multi-shipping, I am also not adverse to Sheldon/Leonard, Sheldon/Wheaton or Sheldon/Winkle. The latter two because of reasons very similar to Sheldon/Penny, but minus the “tenderness”, and Shelnard because, quite frankly, they appear to be in a relationship already. It might not be particularly HEALTHY, but it’s realistic. Although Leonard would have to drop the whole being ASHAMED of Sheldon and occasionally stabbing him in the back shtick if I were to “ship” it with any heart. Also he’d obviously have to change his sexual orientation. And Wheaton would have to lose his wife, and Anne is quite lovely. So.

But in essence, yes, I agree that it’s unfathomable to ship two opposite types of relationship involving the one person. S/P & S/W are both of the “sparring opposites” type, S/A at its’ original and best was “two weirdos against the world” but in the last two years has oscillated oddly between “wise woman/clueless man” and “needy submissive/oblivious dominant” and it is VERY much a ‘normal’ woman suffering with a man from another planet. They are not on the same wavelength at all.

I’ve noticed that a vast amount of S/P fanfiction revolves around the concept of Penny “noticing” Sheldon for the first time, and then what that recognition entails. Often sex to be honest, because 80% of fanfiction seems to involve it somehow, but the CRITICAL moment in these fics is the recognition. The bridge between two worlds.

S/A fanfiction, I’ve been informed (and please correct me) apparently revolves around Sheldon doing something Sheldonlike, Amy dumping him and having a great life, and then Sheldon tries really hard to get her back. So, self-affirmation for the Amy character? (Or even revenge fantasy?)

These are obviously vastly different concepts; Recognition of the Other VS Affirmation of the Self.

They’re both valid and interesting concepts in themselves, but when applied to “shipping” necessitate a wildly fluctuating view of Sheldon’s character, if you wish to switch between them. In the S/A case Sheldon is made to change for the glorification of Amy, whilst in the S/P scenario he is appreciated for himself.

Obviously, being a Sheldon fan I’m in favour of the latter. An S/A shipper might see it all differently (in fact I’m sure they would), but their viewpoint is just as biased as mine. If not possibly more so, given that AFF is a popular self-insert character and thus many seem to feel directly involved in the S/A relationship on a highly personal level. I deeply admire Sheldon, and identify with his outsiderhood and pursuit of truth, but in no sense am I living vicariously through his fictional existence, and expecting it to validate my own. At least I HOPE not!

Holy mother of god how much have I blethered on here…

I should probably stop now.

[Louise]

It's a complex and touchy subject. I was hesitant to write this, because I can see how it might seem like I'm saying "No, don't have fun, don't imagine unusual pairings, there is only one Right Way...", etc...

I think there's a difference between finding multiple pairings interesting and intriguing, versus thinking that any and all possible combinations of characters are qualitatively the same. It's a fine distinction...

I also think there are some people just writing/mentioning every pairing they can think of in order to get hits/views on their fic, or get attention, or make it seem like they're super-creative. Which, again, not a crime, but slightly silly and annoying.

You've brought up many interesting points, and I'll have a more thorough response, later...

[Louise]

" find romantic plotlines generally predictable, cheap, shallow, dull."

Like you, I would prefer to see no long-term relationships on the show itself, and keep romance in the realm of fanfiction, imagination, and speculation. But I still have strong opinions about it, heh

Like I've said before, I like romance, but I generally like it better in books than visual media, and I hate romcom tropes, cliches, and stereotypes. IMO weddings or other set-in-stone relationships are simply not suitable for the sitcom genre. And any "love interest" character who sticks around for more than, say, half a season, will start to bog down the show...

It makes me feel like I'm being sort of uncharitable and cranky to say "don't multi-ship", because what people write or read in fanfiction has little effect on me. Unless, of course, it starts to crowd-out the types of themes or stories that I *would* like to see. What actually bothers me, I think, are people who claim the title "multi-shipper" like it's some type of an accomplishment to make as many different combinations of characters as possible. I suspect they think they're more creative or more open-minded than those who don't.

And I'm not even saying "Don't multi-ship"; I certainly can't tell other people what to do, just that my personal and admittedly biased reaction is to find it silly, illogical, and a bit disingenuous.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

Multi-shippers tend to have one OTP but it must be lonely for them as they eyed with suspicion by both sides. It seems the most common multi is a Shenny/Shamy shipper and this is an odd one because the ships couldn't be more different. But I suppose the common denominator is Sheldon so maybe they are JP fans first and shippers second.

I would rather have Sheldon single too, than any kind of ship which demoralised him and that includes Shenny. The Shamy is based on the idea that Sheldon is wrong, in denial, a stupid child and Amy is trying to coerce him.

Amy "... does NOT encourage his eccentricities, dismisses his passions, complains constantly about his lack of attention, and yet will not let him go. Making every episode they’re together akin to watching a bird struggle in an oil slick."

This the most accurate description of this ship ever! All she is doing is waiting him out. As you can tell, I do not multi-ship. I sort of ship Raj and Amy because I think this is the only male character she has real chemistry with but I assume multi-shipping has to include the same character more than once. I don't ship Sheldon or Penny with anyone else. To me, there is only one ship for these characters.

[lewstonewar]

I'm coming from a multi-fandom fanfiction perspective so in that sense I am a multi-shipper. I have favorites but no OTP (no I take that back Elizabeth Bennet/Fitzwilliam Darcy is my OTP) I am of the school.."Give me evidence of your ship and I will ship it with you." I need the origin story and slow burn. Show your work.

Oftentimes they are shipping two people who have never met so the challenge is first to create scenario where they will meet, hypothesize how they would interact, how they fall in love, how they are both better for being in the relationship. I can then go back to the source material and think, "yes, I can see that happening."

I have read very good stories that have given me sufficient evidence of Sheldon/Penny romantic but not sexual, Sheldon/Penny w/sex, Penny/Raj, Raj/AFF

[Louise]

I have read very good stories that have given me sufficient evidence of Sheldon/Penny romantic but not sexual, Sheldon/Penny w/sex, Penny/Raj, Raj/AFF.

Yes. That's not the type of multi-shipping I object to. One *can* make almost anything plausible, emphasis on the *almost.* Fanfiction offers us limitless possibilities, and I don't begrudge anyone the chance to see scenarios which would never be shown in canon...

What bugs me are people who seem to be throwing characters together randomly just for shock value or attention or just because they can, and people who seem to think that multi-shipping is some type of accomplishment and makes them special.

While one can be interested in many different ships, I find it hard to believe that a person considers *all* of those ships equally valid, equally plausible, etc. But that's just my gut reaction.

It's about time for me to divulge that I ship Howard/Raj in a shippy way, too, not just a platonic friendship way, but I'm okay with that remaining in the realm of fandom and I wouldn't expect, or even necessarily *want*, to see that become fully canon.

---

I would rather have Sheldon single too, than any kind of ship which demoralised him and that includes Shenny.

See, that's the key point. You're not rigid in your thinking. You value Sheldon as an individual first, and the ship comes second. The problems begin when fans value a ship so much more than they value the characters as individuals. The ship takes on a life of its own...

While I myself am not deeply invested in Shenny, I can respect the fact that Shenny shippers, on the whole, see Sheldon as a person, and not just a faceless place-holder in some romantic scenario...

[Tuesday Pajamas]

See, that's the key point. You're not rigid in your thinking. You value Sheldon as an individual first, and the ship comes second. The problems begin when fans value a ship so much more than they value the characters as individuals. The ship takes on a life of its own...

While I myself am not deeply invested in Shenny, I can respect the fact that Shenny shippers, on the whole, see Sheldon as a person, and not just a faceless place-holder in some romantic scenario...

I think you'll find a lot of Shennys feel the same way. Our ship is based on both of them being gutsy and sure of themselves. There's no play for pity. Penny can make a scene funny with just one withering look in Sheldon's direction.

Unfortunately, it will never work that way with Amy. Mayim Bialik has a different acting style and there's something very serious about her anger. Same with Melissa Rauch. Neither of them can really make their aggression that amusing. When Penny gets angry, the scene still remains funny and she's never scary. Kaley has a gentle touch to her acting which is rare and she never forgets it's comedy. I think this is why it works so well with Sheldon. He's such an unreasonable sod and scenes shouldn't get too serious, or he just looks mean.

[ricardo shillyshally]

I take your point about multi-shipping, but most of us don't have contadictory ships. There's history, alot of us were on other sites that are less tolerant about using imagination, and so we formed a sort of alliance, where if someone could put forward a reasonable arguement, we would be tolerant, and accept their right to their own viewpoints. Love the 'watching a bird struggle in an oil slick', that's exactly what it's like. This is a traditional sitcom in many respects, a group of people in a location; who will have a relationship, who will have sex, who will be friends, or enemies. They are limited, but make the most of it by offering many different potential realities. I heard an interesting interview with John Slattery of Mad Men. He said, originally there was not supposed to be any interaction between his character and that of Christina Hendricks. But it was obvious they had on screen chemistry, and that affected the future writing. (I've never seen Mad Men, so not exactly sure how that went). But it indicates that not all shows are so rigid in their plot trajectories!