Sherlockian Blether

[Idle Miscreant]

Being a ruthlessly antiquated bastard/bluff-old-traditionalist, I avoided the modern BBC version of Sherlock for a hideous length of time. Particularly when the only bit I'd seen of it was Watson with a Mac.
So I've finally watched it, and obviously am massively, pathetically taken by it, like any rational, aesthetically-minded person would be.
Rathbone is still the master Holmes, as far as I'm concerned, but Cumberbatch is a VERY close second, and that's bloody saying something.
Freeman is easily my favourite Watson thus far...He's generally, in the past, been portrayed as a bumbling idiot. Loyal, but with the intelligence and personality of a pot of paint. So Freeman's long-suffering snarkiness and general aura of gloom works brilliantly against Holmes' obliviousness.
They're all wonderful acting choices, actually. Except Molly. I don't understand that at all.

Anyroad.

This thread is for anything even vaguely Sherlock related, and any incarnation thereof. Of course it will shortly fill up with Space's theories about Season 4, but that's also partially why I created it.

This is a good example for anyone who hasn't seen the modern version.




The original Sidney Paget illustrations. I've got the whole book, and in MOST of them, Holmes is just lolling about like a tit, smoking. It's very lethargy-inducing to look at.




SOMETIMES he gets up...

[SpaceAnJL]

Are you implying that I get expansively verbose on certain subjects, Gripe?

But, yes. I am a hardcore ACD fan, who also looked askance at a modern reboot. Jeremy Brett possibly just edges out Rathbone as my favourite. (I also may have a sneaking guilty fondness for Laurie King's books, which are the worst Mary-Sue Self-Insert fanfic ever, but.) I like the bonkers RDJ films, but they are basically what LXG should have been - though if a Norton turned up in Tony Stark's family tree, I would not be surprised. (And for the hardcore sci-fi fans, wanna bet that a future descendent might be a Naismith?) It's essentially RDJ being deliciously charming and insane and chewing all the scenery, though, not Holmes.

BC does a fair amount of scenery chewing, too. He's far less socially adept than the canon Holmes, but half of that is a choice, because he's an overprivileged white boy. But yes, Freeman is a fabulous Watson. As someone put it in an interview, if this was any other show, the brilliant but damaged war hero doctor would be the central protagonist. He only looks normal because of who he is standing next to. Or chasing over the rooftops after. Or following down a sewer. Or into a drug den... But this Watson is very much the canon Watson, dependable, adaptable, his own intelligence only overshadowed because Holmes, and dangerously capable, all under the veneer of normality.

Then, there's Mary. Now, that was a stroke of genius. (I am going to assume that anyone reading this has seen all three seasons to date, incidentally.) Because John is telling himself that he's looking for normality, to forget all the danger and lunacy. So, of course, the nurse he meets turns out to be an ex-alphabet agency assassin. The best bit about her was the sheer screen chemistry, because whatever the real life situation, they felt like a couple on screen. And it was great that she obviously understood that being with John meant being with John-and-Sherlock, and she wasn't resentful or intimidated - the reveal of why was a kicker, of course. And putting a baby in the mix? I dunno how that will work, but somehow, it intrigues me that Sherlock is probably the least dangerous of the trio. And that he will be inappropriately gleeful the first time said child throws up on Mycroft. I really, really hope they do not fridge Mary next season, I will be fucking furious if they do. The Irene Adler clusterfuck was bad enough.

That plot line, I hated. Lara Pulver was excellent, but the writing and characterisation? Bullshit. In the original canon, Irene Adler is a talented singer. She gets involved with a minor European Royal, who decides she's good enough to be a mistress but *insert upperclass elitist asshole moment here* - and then panics when he decides to get married. Essentially, a young woman of no birth or fortune is burgled, threatened and harassed by a man of wealth and power who wants the inconvenience of his past to go away and let him have his comfortable, rich existence untroubled. And in fact, it turns out that the lady in question would like to go away and not be bothered by this elitist asshole any more, except he's decided that she's a threat. She uses the one weapon she has to make him back the fuck off, really, and I don't blame her. She was shown to be clever, resourceful and not in any need of any man to rescue her. So, the whole 'gay-turned-straight-for-Holmes' blackmailing dominatrix fuckery annoyed me unspeakably. It made her a sexualised object, again, rather than a character.

But, going forward, season 4.

Using canon, Watson was a widower at least once. I am worried about this. I'd much rather they were a bad ass trio arguing about who got to wear the baby sling on this outing. Much as I admire the willingness of the writers, ascended fanboys to a man, to pander to the fandom and make Middle England scream at the slashy overtones, I like the found family/bromance/battle couple thing going on. (And am highly amused that the weird Black Widow/Watson fic xovers aren't so bonkers, after all.) Putting a Watson Jnr in the mix is going to be utterly new ground.

Re Moriarty. Canon had it that Moriarty was one of three brothers. So I'm going out on a limb and wondering if he's actually twins. And the bonkers one topped himself, but the slightly saner planner of the two is still out there. (A friend pointed out that Magnussen's secretary had a similar accent, and maybe she was a sister, which would be an epic twist, but probably one too far... though, this is a Moff/Gatt production, and their track record is patchy when it comes to twisting plots past the point of amusing incredibility.)

Moriarty was the Joker - and why I wonder if there was another directing intelligence, because he was too erratic to be anything other than a ticking bomb - but CAM was a truly horrifying and modern opponent. And so correct, you don't need proof, all you have to do is publish. There was no legal way to stop him. I'd rather this didn't devolve into a US style shadow conspiracy masquerade kudzu plot, though. I'm already pissed off enough with Joss fucking Whedon and his ilk. I want Holmes to stay coolly and weirdly British. The US have already fucked up Dr Who, they can't have this icon, too.

Also, very intrigued by Mycroft's mention of a possible third Holmes brother. I love the depiction of the Holmes family, startlingly normal(ish) parents, and the ridiculous sibling dynamic. In some ways, it makes Sherlock less of an enigma, and I don't really want to be wading around in kiddy flashbacks and puppy-related trauma, but it does make them feel like real people.

...er, so you might have a point. But, anyway.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

I don't know the back story and history of Sherlock as well as yourself Space, but I was pleased that Moriarty is rising from the dead and your theory seemed highly plausible. Holmes has to have a Moriarty at any rate!

Alder saying she was gay seemed out of place to me, but I thought the actress was so stunning and charismatic I ignored the overly sexual manner they gave her (making her a sex worker was a bit much). From what you have written she could have been much more and Sherlock's affection would have made a little more sense, rather than she beats him with a whip and it's love

I challenge you to try Elementary, the US version, which I also watch. I'm so shameless, I'll watch any old nonsense! but talking about messed up characterisations, I dare you, I dare you!!! and except you to have KITTENS OVER IT.



I've just realised how utterly disturbing that image is



Ahhh, that's better....

[lewstonewar]

I want Holmes to stay coolly and weirdly British. The US have already fucked up Dr Who, they can't have this icon, too.

I respectfully disagree...it is not appealing to the US audience that is ruining Doctor Who. It's is Moffat sexist misogynist fingers in every script as showrunner. His influence in BBC Sherlock is tempered somewhat because of Mark Gatiss.

[ricardo shillyshally]

Obviously when we're not reciting Blake or Wilde, we're recalling tales of Holmes. Here's Jim, being Sheldon, being Data. Brent, being Data, being Holmes. So Jim-Sheldon-Data-Holmes is possible! http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-02-1...-said-what

[Wisp]

I feel it's necessary to mention that my mam fancies the ass off of Benedict Cumberbatch. Can't blame her. I like to go "Look, it's your BOYFRIEND" when my dad's in the room, just to watch him die a little inside...

Maybe I'm missing the part of my brain that feels womanly pride, but I've never really detected misogyny in Sherlock. Or Doctor Who, though it's more understandable to me why people would find his insistance on having a pretty lady companion a bit funny. Eh, I don't know.

[Idle Miscreant]

My mother fancies Cumberbatch as well. So do I. So does my father.
Currently there's very little argument in their house about what to watch for film night. Always bloody Sherlock. Usually it's some sort of bizarre coin-toss between Death in Venice or Back to the Future...

I used to call Sheldon my wife. Now I want a divorce...

[Tuesday Pajamas]

It took us a while to get you to try Sherlock and now look! maybe it's Community time??

[SpaceAnJL]

Maybe I'm missing the part of my brain that feels womanly pride, but I've never really detected misogyny in Sherlock. Or Doctor Who, though it's more understandable to me why people would find his insistance on having a pretty lady companion a bit funny. Eh, I don't know.

I think both characters are essentially disdainful of everyone who isn't as smart as them, regardless of gender. (As was early Sheldon.) The Doctor is a bit less obvious about it, most of the time, having had longer to observe various social behaviours.

(The Companion bit - the show was originally supposed to be educational, Susan as the audience stand-in, and a couple of teachers as chaperones, until they made her a grandchild. The New Who, with the much lesser visual age gap, let the fangirls off the leash. The progressively more special the snowflake gets, the more irritated I get - it just turns into Self-Insert Mary-Sue when the audience POV character becomes the pivot of all space and time and the only one that can save the multiverse. Bleh.)

[lewstonewar]

I think both characters are essentially disdainful of everyone who isn't as smart as them, regardless of gender. (As was early Sheldon.) The Doctor is a bit less obvious about it, most of the time, having had longer to observe various social behaviours.

(The Companion bit - the show was originally supposed to be educational, Susan as the audience stand-in, and a couple of teachers as chaperones, until they made her a grandchild. The New Who, with the much lesser visual age gap, let the fangirls off the leash. The progressively more special the snowflake gets, the more irritated I get - it just turns into Self-Insert Mary-Sue when the audience POV character becomes the pivot of all space and time and the only one that can save the multiverse. Bleh.)

Moffat created companions have no life outside of their man. River Song was initially interesting but the more you learned about her the more you realize every moment of her existence was in service to the Doctor despite them spending very little face-to-face time together (I don't believe the Doctor considered himself really married to her but let her think they were because he found it useful). How many times did Amy Pond kill herself when she couldn't be with Rory any more? 2-3 times? Clara existed to save the doctor, says it explicitly in the prologues.

Eleven often makes "ugh women! who can fathom them jokes" and is more overtly sexual despite being less sexy e.g. All the nudity and consent issues in the Time of the Doctor -- Gross.

Whenever he wrote an episode during the RTD era he obviously didn't know what to do with strong complex woman that were the regular companions so they were shunted to the side and he would introduce one of his flimsy puppet companions (River, Reinette, Sally Sparrow) or a man (Capt Jack).