The problem with entitlement

[Tuesday Pajamas]

This article is very intersting...

I have seen this argument against the Leonard and Penny relationship time and time again. The idea of nerd entitlement, is both insulting to nerds and to the women who are harassed by them in the real world. So I thought some of you might like this posted. (thanks Dev)

It sums up a lot of my feelings about the relationship the writers chose to support on this show (rather than the far more intriguing Shenny connection).

And the gender reversal in Shamy, another relationship based on entitlement of an 'unfortunate' which is equally as insulting.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...nerds.html

[devilbk]

This article is very intersting...

I have seen this argument against the Leonard and Penny relationship time and time again. The idea of nerd entitlement, is both insulting to nerds and to the women who are harassed by them in the real world. So I thought some of you might like this posted. (thanks Dev)

It sums up a lot of my feelings about the relationship the writers chose to support on this show (rather than the far more intriguing Shenny connection).

And the gender reversal in Shamy, another relationship based on entitlement of an 'unfortunate' which is equally as insulting.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...nerds.html

We are dealing with two character rife with entitlement issues, Leonard and Amy. Both of them decided what they wanted and pressed Penny and Sheldon into going along. They both feel that the time that they've invested in the relationship entitles them to the benefits. Leonard goes along with whatever Penny wants because he wants the sex reward. Amy is disappointed that Sheldon has not yet given her that reward. Their relationship are entirely transactional and they believe that they have invested more than they have received. They both feel they deserve more from their partner.

Leonard also feels that despite undermining Sheldon's research in the Arctic, he deserves to be given tenure by the university. Amy believed that despite her lack of a real relationship with Bernadette, she deserved to be the Maid of Honor. Neither of these characters have ever had to deal with real disappointment or loss in their lives . They are privileged academics from academic families.

To be honest, they deserve a real kick in the face and a struggle. Penny and Sheldon have had to struggle their whole lives.

---

But we also need to remember that the nerd world has always been rife with misogyny on virtually every level. And entitlement. It's in our literature, our entertainment and our celebration of those things.

[Tuesday Pajamas]

We are dealing with two character rife with entitlement issues, Leonard and Amy. Both of them decided what they wanted and pressed Penny and Sheldon into going along. They both feel that the time that they've invested in the relationship entitles them to the benefits. Leonard goes along with whatever Penny wants because he wants the sex reward. Amy is disappointed that Sheldon has not yet given her that reward. Their relationship are entirely transactional and they believe that they have invested more than they have received. They both feel they deserve more from their partner.

Leonard also feels that despite undermining Sheldon's research in the Arctic, he deserves to be given tenure by the university. Amy believed that despite her lack of a real relationship with Bernadette, she deserved to be the Maid of Honor. Neither of these characters have ever had to deal with real disappointment or loss in their lives . They are privileged academics from academic families.

To be honest, they deserve a real kick in the face and a struggle. Penny and Sheldon have had to struggle their whole lives.

---

But we also need to remember that the nerd world has always been rife with misogyny on virtually every level. And entitlement. It's in our literature, our entertainment and our celebration of those things.

This is a hot topic right now and it's time it was addressed. The idea that Penny should take up with Leonard because her life hasn't turned out how she hoped is not a message of love. She is still being treated like a 'thing' to be possessed by this show. And you are right, it's not just BB that perpetuates this rubbish.

Shamy is just as bad, if not worse. Manipulating physical affection from someone who has little understanding is symbolic of child abuse. Sheldon owes Amy nothing. She chose to stick around, she's responsible for herself and her own choices.

And yes, Amy and Leonard had privileged backgrounds and they believe people like Sheldon and Penny are owed to them. It's very creepy.

[Trust No One]

This is a hot topic right now and it's time it was addressed. The idea that Penny should take up with Leonard because her life hasn't turned out how she hoped is not a message of love. She is still being treated like a 'thing' to be possessed by this show. And you are right, it's not just BB that perpetuates this rubbish.

Shamy is just as bad, if not worse. Manipulating physical affection from someone who has little understanding is symbolic of child abuse. Sheldon owes Amy nothing. She chose to stick around, she's responsible for herself and her own choices.

And yes, Amy and Leonard had privileged backgrounds and they believe people like Sheldon and Penny are owed to them. It's very creepy.

Could not agree more dev and TP. There is no love with the Lenny and Shamy. I also wonder what is suppose to be funny with the Lenny and Shamy? Hollywood as a whole has to do a better job than this and the audience should demand more as well.

[SpaceAnJL]

This isn't just this one show, though. There's a whole culture of entitlement, and even if it has shifted from being about the guy with the biggest muscles to the guy with the biggest brain, it is still all about the guy. Screw that. Or not, in fact. The dynamic is still that the girl is a prize to be won, but the onus has moved to making her accept that role, and gratefully embrace it - and usually some sweaty loser with it. It is her problem if she doesn't want to, something wrong with her and her view of the world if she won't capitulate.

The 'Cinderella/Ugly Duckling' story only works if there is an inner beauty to be seen. Just being the lame underdog isn't enough. Wearing your dysfunction like a passcard, and demanding that somebody reward you for it, is not a healthy expectation.

(And so many times, the 'hot girl' in the equation has nothing else to her. She isn't particularly nice, or funny, or anything but some kind of shiny trophy to be waved in people's face. "I have sex with this person, therefore I am a Real Boy!")

But this comedy culture says that it is acceptable for someone to be stalked, pressured and generally guilted, their feelings as the object of desire are considered less important than those of the subject, because some fantasy social construct out of popular media dictates that they should 'give him/her a chance'. It is a scary place to be, on the wrong end of that. Nobody has the right to anyone else's time, attention or body, just because THEY want it.

[devilbk]

The funny thing is that the two people who play the victim card most often, Leonard and Amy, are anything but that. They are overprivileged, overly entitled and manipulative users. And Penny and Sheldon, the people they supposedly love, are nothing more than things that Leonard and Amy wish to possess. It's classist, sexist and nerdist.

[SpaceAnJL]

This is nothing new, either. The entwined themes of misogyny and resentment. And so many times, it leads back to a white guy who has health and education and skills, sitting on his arse and whining about how the 'hot girl' he thinks he should have, as befits a man of his intellectual status/a reward for being bullied in school, refuses to sleep with him as his passport to social acceptance amongst a group of people he actually despises and fears.

It isn't about finding someone compatible with his interests (because he's consumed with self-loathing and internalised shame) and he won't consider a girl who doesn't meet his aesthetic standards (because she isn't a person, she's a symbol of his success) - but staring beadily at her chest and exuding a combination of intellectual arrogance and sexual desperation doesn't seem to work, who knew?

This whole issue is illustrated quite handily in TBBT - Penny has no surname, and an ill-defined career path. This is because she isn't quite a real person to the show. She's merely a reflection of whatever Leonard needs in the plot line, whether that is a punchbag for his own insecurities or a fuckbuddy when he's feeling the need to smugly air his prowess. It is why she has no friends outside of the insular group, no hobbies or interests showcased. She is allowed no agency, nothing that does not lead straight back to the narrow existence of being 'Leonard's'.

The distaff side is just as repulsive. Amy is a horrendous creation - a plain, frustrated, deeply peculiar woman chasing a man who seems intent on getting away from her. She might be smart, but it means nothing without a man. She's plain, therefore desperate. It's an unkind depiction of a (sadly) stock character. There's an additional layer of nastiness with the fact that she is actually repulsive as a character, certain behaviours well over the line of humour into sheer creepiness. Because her intended prey in this case is a character who is emotionally and socially stunted, and thus the whole scenario becomes increasingly cringe-making and uncomfortable to watch. ('Sexy toddler'? Just. No.)

We are being encouraged to mock and jeer at dysfunctional adults failing to negotiate their lives, whilst also being told that the only appropriate aspiration for them is social conformity. There's a deep vein of fear and hatred of the Other running beneath it all.

[Wisp]

The thing I hate the most about the two entitled characters in TBBT (primarily Amy and Leonard) is the coupling of the entitlement with obliviousness from the other characters. It probably wouldn't bother me if Penny or Sheldon or the other characters pulled them up on it, but they don't. There's a certain point within the comedy universe and indeed real life where one suffering person (foil, spouse, sibling, partner etc.) has clarity and realises that they are being manipulated, or that their relationship is based on codependency, and tries to do something about it. TBBT neglects this idea 98.9 percent of the time, and it's very unsatisfying. The level of self-entitlement/loathing and unjust compromise governed from one side of the pairing is always there and never resolved, so the characters are no longer sympathetic.

I've been binge-ing on Peep Show for the last couple of days, and though I really like Mark he's definitely got some Leonard traits: pining for a woman he doesn't have anything in common with, ignoring sane advice that he doesn't need to marry this woman despite knowing it himself, chasing after women that don't like him despite having found a nice woman WHO LIKES HIM AND HE LIKES HER TOO, and looking down his nose at other people's relationships. But, I don't hate him for it, because he's definitely ashamed, and it's usually funny anyway because deep down he knows that he's a bit pathetic. So not as big a problem as it could be. I want him to have a happy ending of some sort. The good thing about Peep Show is that you hear what the two guys are really thinking, so any seemingly mean-spirited behaviour seen by the other characters is confided to us as a fear-based lie, or a plan gone wrong, and this saves the characters from seeming like bastards. We don't know what impression Leonard and Amy may actually WANT to give; they could actually be a pair of Marks, shouting at themselves in their head every time they stupidly lick a stapler or obsessively pry about Penny's past dalliances, but all we see is the creepy desperation with no real explanation other than: They're geeks. Geeks are creepy.

Community is also aware of its character's faults and turns them into strengths that make them more sympathetic and relatable. Pierce is a bit of a wanker. He's racist, homophobic, arrogant and a bit creepy, and he has a vaguely Amy brand of self-entitlement, in the way that he kicks off - "Rule number one. Invite me to your crap." at any hint that the group is avoiding him. They understandably think he's a pain in the arse, but because they are aware of how childish and desperate he is to be their friend and feel appreciated, he's still a sympathetic character, because within universe the problem character has been addressed. Even Troy and Abed have had their bumps because of Abed's charming but eerie connection with all forms of pop-culture leading to the characters often indulging him and possibly pushing him over the line between fantasy and reality. We, and the other characters, know that Abed's pop-culture obsession and the Dean's tendency to cross-dress and make Greendale fun is well-meaning, generally harmless and endearing, but their actions still have consequences. Same goes for Jeff, but his learning curves aren't as clear. This is why I can't like Amy and Leonard, because they get away with all sorts of (sometimes unintentional, I'll give them that) selfishness, and the Amy fans still think the sun shines out of her arse because she was lonely and bullied when she was little (I can see why to be honest. Being bullied doesn't automatically make you a nice person.) but Sheldon, whose very being is sculpted from unambiguity and honesty, is generally the only one that is pulled up for things that are fundamentally transparent and usually not mean-spirited. He's pretty selfish, but he doesn't hide it, and he doesn't always get away with it, which is why he is a sympathetic character, and Leonard and Amy are not. Which leads me to ask TBBT:



"Love."

[Nutz]

I know I haven't been around for a while. I had a meltdown on BBT after watching Gorilla and have spent the last few weeks trying to gather my thoughts on everything I felt that was so creepy wrong and offensive about this episode. However, after the tragedy out here it makes the stuff in the episode take backseat and in it's own way highlights BBT's biggest problem, Entitlement.

I know many of you have been talking about what this tragedy might mean for the show, and I would love to say that Lorre and Company will have a change of heart and actually deal with the asinine premise that anybody DESERVES anything they want, especially a person and all you have to do is stalk, harass, belittle, manipulate, or keep the person drunk you feel like you deserve and they'll eventually change their minds and love you back. Unfortunately, I have a feeling other then some bland twitter statements of sadness I doubt the show will change since they'll fall back on the show is a comedy and not meant to be taken seriously by anyone. So unless the big three (especially Kaley) tell them they won't resign a new contract unless certain things (like Leonard & Amy always being rewarded when doing wrong and creepy things) next season will (to most of us) will be just one long commercial to certain people that if you feel like you deserve someone, go for it, and remember all is fair in love and war, so whatever you have to do will be forgiven once they love you.

[devilbk]

So unless the big three (especially Kaley) tell them they won't resign a new contract unless certain things (like Leonard & Amy always being rewarded when doing wrong and creepy things) next season will (to most of us) will be just one long commercial to certain people that if you feel like you deserve someone, go for it, and remember all is fair in love and war, so whatever you have to do will be forgiven once the love you.


You're probably right. But we're dreamers, aren't we?