12-14-2014, 06:10 PM
Interesting. I tend not to watch interviews with Helberg, or care what he says about the character, because it's become clear that the actors are just going along with whatever and not analyzing the characters as intensely and deeply as we do. Maybe that sounds pretentious, but you see what I mean.
The thing is, I don't believe Howard *has* shown much "growing and learning" just by marrying B. Like we all keep saying, these characters have regressed.
After B. is introduced, his character becomes inconsistent, IMO, because now the character is being used in service of the plot, rather than vice versa. IMO they made him *more* obnoxious, in some ways, in order to make B. look better by comparison and to set up this phony "redemption" story.
If we accept the post-A&B era as valid (which I don't), then I don't see how the guys have actually become more socially aware; they've just repressed the parts of themselves that were deemed unacceptable.
It's like someone else said recently, in regards to Sheldon: you make the character *more* childish, so that you can then claim "growth." It's a trick.
There are just so many things wrong with this show's approach; I could rant for pages and pages and it would never be enough, because there are so many different points to address.
The only way to demonstrate social competence and personal betterment is by getting married??? Bwuh?
There's nothing especially appealing about Bernadette, so the message here is: Howard is so desperate for love that he'll fall apart for the first woman who shows him even the slightest attention. That's a positive message? I think it's kinda troubling, to say the least.
Bernadette has no personality; she just toggles between "cute blonde" and "monstrous caricature", so I really don't see what kind of emotional or psychological need she's fulfilling in Howard. She's there and she's female. Period. She just fills an empty slot labeled "girlfriend."
If we're to believe Dr.Beverly; Howard and Raj were each other's main source of companionship, and they fulfilled each other's emotional needs. So, maybe the pursuit of girls was more about the thrill of the chase, than about any deep desire for a "real relationship", whatever that is. Who knows?
That's the problem with this show: each character's "happily ever after" looks exactly the same.
IIRC, by the end of Season 2, the show had already backed-off on the "overly sexual Howard" jokes, a bit. He's (somewhat) able to be in Penny's presence without pestering her and going into sexual overdrive. That's a big step. This was long before Bernadette; hence my claim that they actually regressed the character in order to accomodate this Bernadette storyline.
It would be a big step if Howard was able to be in an attractive woman's presence without over-reacting. But several seasons later, we're still being fed the message that he's this pathetic creep who will "never do any better" than Bernadette; so he should just be grovelingly grateful that any woman will even look at him. The whole H/B storyline rests on this idea that he doesn't deserve her, that she's the "normal one" of the two; he needs to "earn" her, that the burden of making the relationship work rests on him, etc. I find it all extremely distasteful. And she simply doesn't seem *real*, so I find it impossible to believe that such a vivid and complex character as Howard would be fascinated with her.
I don't get it. This new character pops up out of nowhere, and all of a sudden we're supposed to side with her? And the other characters are supposed to side with her, too, and badger H. into marrying her?
It's really pretty galling, when you think about it. When B. was introduced, we'd already known and loved Howard for two and a half seasons, and now we're expected to believe he's not worthy of some random one-dimensional nobody whom we, the audience, have no reason to care about? Bitch, I don't know you. Go away.
That's such an ugly message, and it's very inconsistent characterization. Howard had already cooled it on the sexual stuff a little bit, BEFORE the introduction of B. That would be a very natural outcome of him and Penny getting to know each other better and feeling more comfortable in each other's presence. IMO the writers did not handle the Penny-Howard conflict well, at all, but eventually it seems like they reached a truce.
It all goes back to this issue of "if the characters don't mend their ways, they'll end up alone, blah, blah." I don't care what happens to the characters when they're 50. They're fictional, and if this show had ended after S1 or S2, I'm sure we'd all assume that the characters would be okay, one way or another.
Maybe some people just aren't cut out to be monogamous, and/or aren't cut out to have long-term relationships. Vintage!Howard might be one of them. Maybe it's possible that for some people, love and sex are two separate things.
Obviously it would be a good thing if he learned to communicate with women better and not freak out around them, but hurrying into marriage doesn't solve that issue, at all. If anything, it just continues an unhealthy level of obsession with females: first his mother is the center of the universe, then Bernadette is the center of the universe. How is that an improvement?
It just goes back to this show's insistence that "traditional monogamous relationship >>>>>> everything."
Ugh. IDK, I don't even like to talk about these issues, because the H/B relationship and the way they've handled his character is so riddled with mixed messages and weird ideas and backwards thinking.
TL;DR: I don't think the H/B relationship represents any kind of "growth" for Howard, and I don't think the guys have actually demonstrated an improvement in their social skills, in later seasons.
TL;DR again: yes, in a real-world context, it would be good if Howard learned to not get over-excited every time a woman crosses his path. But...this is a sitcom. And, I honestly believe Vintage!Howard may've been a person who isn't cut out to be married, at all. And...that's okay. This show just won't admit that more than one type of lifestyle can exist.
For good or for ill, I could really see Vintage!Howard as someone who simply isn't cut out for "serious" relationships and gets his emotional fulfillment elsewhere.
The thing is, I don't believe Howard *has* shown much "growing and learning" just by marrying B. Like we all keep saying, these characters have regressed.
After B. is introduced, his character becomes inconsistent, IMO, because now the character is being used in service of the plot, rather than vice versa. IMO they made him *more* obnoxious, in some ways, in order to make B. look better by comparison and to set up this phony "redemption" story.
If we accept the post-A&B era as valid (which I don't), then I don't see how the guys have actually become more socially aware; they've just repressed the parts of themselves that were deemed unacceptable.
It's like someone else said recently, in regards to Sheldon: you make the character *more* childish, so that you can then claim "growth." It's a trick.
There are just so many things wrong with this show's approach; I could rant for pages and pages and it would never be enough, because there are so many different points to address.
The only way to demonstrate social competence and personal betterment is by getting married??? Bwuh?
There's nothing especially appealing about Bernadette, so the message here is: Howard is so desperate for love that he'll fall apart for the first woman who shows him even the slightest attention. That's a positive message? I think it's kinda troubling, to say the least.
Bernadette has no personality; she just toggles between "cute blonde" and "monstrous caricature", so I really don't see what kind of emotional or psychological need she's fulfilling in Howard. She's there and she's female. Period. She just fills an empty slot labeled "girlfriend."
If we're to believe Dr.Beverly; Howard and Raj were each other's main source of companionship, and they fulfilled each other's emotional needs. So, maybe the pursuit of girls was more about the thrill of the chase, than about any deep desire for a "real relationship", whatever that is. Who knows?
That's the problem with this show: each character's "happily ever after" looks exactly the same.
IIRC, by the end of Season 2, the show had already backed-off on the "overly sexual Howard" jokes, a bit. He's (somewhat) able to be in Penny's presence without pestering her and going into sexual overdrive. That's a big step. This was long before Bernadette; hence my claim that they actually regressed the character in order to accomodate this Bernadette storyline.
It would be a big step if Howard was able to be in an attractive woman's presence without over-reacting. But several seasons later, we're still being fed the message that he's this pathetic creep who will "never do any better" than Bernadette; so he should just be grovelingly grateful that any woman will even look at him. The whole H/B storyline rests on this idea that he doesn't deserve her, that she's the "normal one" of the two; he needs to "earn" her, that the burden of making the relationship work rests on him, etc. I find it all extremely distasteful. And she simply doesn't seem *real*, so I find it impossible to believe that such a vivid and complex character as Howard would be fascinated with her.
I don't get it. This new character pops up out of nowhere, and all of a sudden we're supposed to side with her? And the other characters are supposed to side with her, too, and badger H. into marrying her?
It's really pretty galling, when you think about it. When B. was introduced, we'd already known and loved Howard for two and a half seasons, and now we're expected to believe he's not worthy of some random one-dimensional nobody whom we, the audience, have no reason to care about? Bitch, I don't know you. Go away.
That's such an ugly message, and it's very inconsistent characterization. Howard had already cooled it on the sexual stuff a little bit, BEFORE the introduction of B. That would be a very natural outcome of him and Penny getting to know each other better and feeling more comfortable in each other's presence. IMO the writers did not handle the Penny-Howard conflict well, at all, but eventually it seems like they reached a truce.
It all goes back to this issue of "if the characters don't mend their ways, they'll end up alone, blah, blah." I don't care what happens to the characters when they're 50. They're fictional, and if this show had ended after S1 or S2, I'm sure we'd all assume that the characters would be okay, one way or another.
Maybe some people just aren't cut out to be monogamous, and/or aren't cut out to have long-term relationships. Vintage!Howard might be one of them. Maybe it's possible that for some people, love and sex are two separate things.
Obviously it would be a good thing if he learned to communicate with women better and not freak out around them, but hurrying into marriage doesn't solve that issue, at all. If anything, it just continues an unhealthy level of obsession with females: first his mother is the center of the universe, then Bernadette is the center of the universe. How is that an improvement?
It just goes back to this show's insistence that "traditional monogamous relationship >>>>>> everything."
Ugh. IDK, I don't even like to talk about these issues, because the H/B relationship and the way they've handled his character is so riddled with mixed messages and weird ideas and backwards thinking.
TL;DR: I don't think the H/B relationship represents any kind of "growth" for Howard, and I don't think the guys have actually demonstrated an improvement in their social skills, in later seasons.
TL;DR again: yes, in a real-world context, it would be good if Howard learned to not get over-excited every time a woman crosses his path. But...this is a sitcom. And, I honestly believe Vintage!Howard may've been a person who isn't cut out to be married, at all. And...that's okay. This show just won't admit that more than one type of lifestyle can exist.
For good or for ill, I could really see Vintage!Howard as someone who simply isn't cut out for "serious" relationships and gets his emotional fulfillment elsewhere.