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+--- Thread: Wishful Thinking... (/showthread.php?tid=42)
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Wisp - 10-03-2014
It's funny, characters that are snarky, sarcastic little shits are usually my favourites. The only characters I like from Scrubs are the bitchy ones. My favourites in TBBT (I will use PAST TENSE goddammit) were Sheldon, Howard, Stuart and Leslie, because they offered a little ray of sleet, be it through bitching, snark or just having a backbone... I only like snarky twats that know they are abrasive though. Leonard-types who are actually kinda dicks but insist that they are living saints who keep the peace don't do it for me, somehow.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 10-03-2014
Quote:a little ray of sleet
Oh, you are funny, Witchdoctor!
RE: Wishful Thinking... - ricardo shillyshally - 10-04-2014
'Worse, the "singles bouncing in and out of love" genre has a tendency to immediately devolve into a conflict-less "hang-out sitcom," the sorts of shows that rarely push their characters beyond the most surface-level tension. Comedy thrives on conflict, and the hang-out sitcom needs to deflate it, lest we wonder why these people hang out together.' '"For better or worse, the basic idea of the sitcom since its inception — that most of the characters are basically in the same place all the time, and so are their relationships — was threatened by Cheers but really demolished by Friends," said Weinman. "Now, we expect character relationships to be constantly evolving, to the point that we're surprised if characters don't get together and break up multiple times during a run."' ' from http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6857745/friends-ruined-TV A sit com like Friends has distorted TV time and space. Unfortunately alot of good programmes from around the world are put in shadow. Alot of the more experimental programmes; like Peep Show (here), are superior but don't get ratings.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - ricardo shillyshally - 10-04-2014
('BoxyP'said)
'That's why I don't think that the writers are idealistic, just uncaring, because they not only use characters as it suits them, but they do it to promote an idea that's either deliberately debilitating or just really not thought out properly, this being the idea that average is the best, and that individuality and intellect should be stamped out and destroyed in pursuit of the average.' I probably didn't express that well. I think the writers when young are idealistic, but when they enter the system, ie: sitcom writer, they find they have to compromise to everyone from; moral gardians+TV censorship, CBS executives(have you seen Family Guy S8E15 Brian writes a sit com, but a team of CBS executives rewrite it.), egos within writing team, actors egos, demands from fans. I think both A and B were brought in for external(to the show) reasons. In reality I think people become more individual as they grow. But sit com land is a strange parallel universe with it own set of rules!
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 10-04-2014
While it's true that a story needs a conflict, I question whether it needs to be *interpersonal* conflict, in the literal sense of the characters arguing, being angry, and yelling at each other. That's an extremely narrow definition of the word "conflict." I'm not entirely convinced that sitcoms thrive on *interpersonal* conflict, especially when that takes the form of petty bickering, or when the conflicts are very contrived and artificial.
I would rather see the characters confront some type of problem or challenge that is external to themselves; I would rather see them united against some common enemy, rather than squabbling amongst themselves or turning against each other.
Maybe that's the difference between a plot-driven story and a character-driven story; I definitely prefer things that are plot-driven, and I'm not sure if there's any such thing as a plot-driven sitcom. Maybe they should've given these characters some type of mission to accomplish, some project to work on, something to *do.* Sheldon wanting to win the Nobel Prize is sort of like that, but still too vague.
I actually think TBBT has suffered because its premise is too vaguely defined and nebulous, and that leaves it vulnerable to being tinkered-with. "A culture clash between nerds and the mainstream" is a pretty succinct summary, but that was never the part of the show that I found the most enjoyable.
Canons claim that this show's premise hasn't changed, "because it was always about the guys becoming more "normal" and assimilating into the mainstream world." If the guys had been given some specific project to work on, some meatier premise, some specific goal, then maybe the show wouldn't have been so vulnerable to getting messed-around-with. I dunno.
Kinda sounds like that's what they're doing with this "Scorpion" show...
RE: Wishful Thinking... - BoxyP - 10-05-2014
Whoa, the Canons really seem to have no concept of what the show used to be. Becoming more normal and assimilating, what. the. heck?
As for character vs plot driven, I always find character driven pieces far more interesting than simple plot driven storylines, but that may be because I used to be a huge fan of CSI back in the day (in my defense, I was fourteen), and then after a while I got bored because the stories were all the same and there was no big story about the main characters. Having said that, there has to be a strong plot even in those things that are primarily character driven. Movies like 'Before Sunrise' and its sequels, which rely only on characters, are interesting as hour-and-a-half explorations, but simply wouldn't work as TV show premises.
Internal conflict within the group is all well and nice, but I have to agree, after a while, one starts wondering what the heck these people are doing, spending time together. Having an external problem to solve together unifies, rather than divides, which is what we all strive for in our lives - happy relationships, job advancements etc.
Ricardo, sorry I misunderstood you, and with this, I agree. They used to be idealistic, then other forces got involved and poof, we have the show as it is now. Maybe that's the difference between being a TV writer and a book writer; TV shows are forever defined by the threat of cancellation dependent on the ratings, and books, even when in series, are published one at a time and can stand for themselves. And, I have to say that I just hate the whole multiple getting together/breaking up wash, rinse, recycle type of storylines. That rarely happens IRL, I think, and if it does, then it's really unhealthy. Why is it so hard for writers to produce quality stuff between two characters who are in a happy relationship???
RE: Wishful Thinking... - ricardo shillyshally - 10-06-2014
I think in some ways at the beginning TBBT promised so much; the characters seemed more real, the interests they shared were relatable. And I'll disagree with you Louise, I think the interpersonal conflicts, especially between Penny and Sheldon were exhilarating. But I think there is room for all types of scenarios; challenges as a team(other than domestic stuff they do), with reference to their work. But the problem is that the characters and their interests aren't developed beyond the superficial. I can imagine the CBS execs, having grown up on Friends, and the like, steering this show to a mediocre level for mass appeal/cash! The positive is that we can decide what works, and can be developed. TV is in Hell, reliant on reality TV, very few new, or challenging ideas. I think that people want something somehow familar, but also challenging.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - ricardo shillyshally - 10-09-2014
It's bizarre, because it's a 20 min sit com format, it's like the characters are stuck in a sort of superficial present. Reliving their cliched characters, and the same jokes; "It's just the same joke endlessly repeated – the everyday translated into geek-speak, and the obscure and difficult treated as if it were common knowledge".(Robert Lloyd). Actually they've been on our screens for almost 70 hours, and yet the only time we see more depth to the characters is when Bev Hofstadter offers insights in person, or in print.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Wisp - 10-14-2014
Not only are the original characters now a bit rubbish, the new characters they bring on are very dispensible. They could replace that ginger lass who is Raj's girlfriend or something with ANY OTHER ACTRESS. Characters like Missy, Ramona etc seemed to have had more thought put into their casting, because the actors chosen had a very specific look/manner about them.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Nutz - 10-15-2014
I hate the relationships on this show, but if they HAD to go there with Raj, I would have liked to see Emily being into cosplay, comic books and other supposed Geeky things and then having Leonard, Howard being completely jealous that Raj got a hot girlfriend who actually loved doing the same things Raj loved.