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+--- Thread: Wishful Thinking... (/showthread.php?tid=42)
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 09-20-2014
Quote:There's always been plausibility issues. Like how can Penny not have a KNOWN surname when Leonard stole her mail in season one? And there have been arguments about how much the guys earn AND how Penny could afford that apartment on a waitresses income for years. I guess some things we have to take with a grain of salt. For me, the hardest to swallow are the emotional contradictions.
I can suspend a lot of disbelief, especially in a comedy, but again, it all depends on how *convincing* the writers can make this stuff. As you said, the emotional/psychological stuff is harder to swallow than running gags like "why hasn't the elevator been fixed?"
Quote:Does anyone know actually know a real woman who speaks is this tonal range, (who's not insane?)
The short answer is no. IMO it's a very, very strange acting-choice to make. That's the type of very broad comedy you'd expect to see on a sketch-comedy show like SNL or something. The other actors might change their speech patterns in subtle ways, but nobody else is adopting a totally fake voice. I find it gimmicky, OTT, and amateurish.
Quote:That's a marvelous list you've got there. Is there a sliding scale for a reason? I agree with it all ....except maybe the drinking, as I'm known for the odd tipple.
LOL, no, I just couldn't manage to keep it in a straight line!!!
If anyone can find some deeper meaning in the shape of this list, feel free...Oh, I enjoy my beers and my cocktails, too, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone a nice relaxing drink, but IIRC the guys were seldom shown drinking in the early seasons, and I liked that because it seemed sort of innocent. I would also imagine that with their various allergies and health issues, they have to be careful about what they consume.
Personally, I wouldn't want a divorce storyline, that's just too unpleasant. I don't have any hope of an H/B breakup. I *do* think there will be some stupid story where they *almost* get close to thinking about a divorce but then H. realizes that he's so lucky to have her and goes crawling back, yadda, yadda.
In a way, it doesn't affect me, because I haven't watched a full season since 3 and I don't watch the new eps, period. But, I think there's no hope of salvaging the H/B situation. I don't want them to get divorced; I want her to have never existed in the first place, and that ship has sailed, obviously.
I know I am probably too hard on MR, I'm sure it feels wonderful to be on the nation's #1 show and I don't begrudge her that, but B. is simply not a real character to me, period. I don't like her face. It's just that simple. Her presence just does not compute, for me. It's like "who is this person that wandered in from some other show?"
She reminds me of all those one-episode-only girlfriends from Seinfeld whose only purpose was to be annoyingly quirky: the High Talker, the Low Talker, etc. I find her literally unwatchable; I literally cannot get through a scene with her in it.
I almost mentioned Penny's apartment in the list, but that's been mentioned so often that I figured it would be repetitive.
Again, I haven't studied the Shamy situation or the Lenny situation as much as others have, so feel free to add to this List of Doom...
TBH, I think having *any* character get married halfway through the show's run is a disastrous choice. And again, I think it was a test to see how the audience would respond to this sort of thing, and H. is probably the one that the fangirls care about the least, because they don't find him cute*, so the hell with him. They couldn't bring on the Lenny and Shamy weddings, yet, so this was a little tidbit for the viewers who crave weddings.
* because they don't have good taste, like me
I've never watched the wedding ep, I think I would find it truly upsetting.
I just can't forgive B. for calling him an idiot and saying things like "Zip it, pervert!" She's really quite horrible. Damn it, you can't talk that way to people, you just can't! I've been less harsh than that to random weirdos on the subway, and this is the love of her life, supposedly? Gross. "Creepy Howard" never said "Shut up, bitch!" to a woman, or anything equivalent.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - SpaceAnJL - 09-20-2014
Bernadette is a whole bunch of stereotypes - the Girl With the Annoying Voice turns up as the sidekick to the Female Lead in a lot of shows/films. (Reminds me of Janice (Friends), or Karen (Will & Grace).) Now she's morphed into Just Like His Mother for the Henpecked Jewish Momma's Boy. It is very lazy writing. But the whole H/B schtick is absolute standard sitcom trope, they are handy filler to fit around the Lead Couple(s) and the Token Ethnic Stereotype (with added Homophobic Hilarity), they are a tried and tested and very boring formula.
Nerdy Underdog Nice Guy is equally trite. Most of us will have met one of these at some point, a sweaty, desperate grin that talks to your chest in the bar, but the reality is that most women would smile tightly and politely and edge away as soon as they could, because needy is not attractive. Realistically, Penny is soft-hearted enough to have maybe done one pity date, but after that, she would probably spend the rest of her tenancy dodging behind the bins when she saw him coming and trying not to get caught in the laundry room with his whining for a second chance.
The less said about the distaff equivalent, the better.
The difference between Howard and Leonard is that you never get the sense that Howard would bear a grudge over being shot down, and would probably still walk you to a taxi, whereas Leonard would bitch spitefully and leave someone to make their own way home. H was sleazy, but interesting, he'd probably chat happily about geeky things without shame, whereas L is self-loathing and would probably deny knowing his friends in public if he thought it made him look cooler.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 09-20-2014
Oh, Pajamas, now you reminded me all over again of how much I hate Bernadette and now my ire is up, lol...
We need some kind of "venting your rage" area in the Sick Bay...
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 09-20-2014
The thing is, even if they got rid of A and B or reduced them to recurring status, it's not like S2 would come roaring back in all its glory. The damage is done.
I can't imagine it was an easy adjustment for the actors, either, to have an established group dynamic change that way. Of course, it was gradual, sort of, but that's still a big change.
If we'd had 3 or 4 full seasons with just the original 5, then I wouldn't feel cheated. I could just write-off whatever came afterwards and move on. It would be nice to have a very clear line of separation between "old TBBT" and "new TBBT." But TPTB were sneaky and they sort of snuck A and B in through the back door.
It pisses me off that they wouldn't even let us have three full seasons with the original 5.
ETA: This thread probably isn't the correct place for this type of bitterness, so I apologize.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Jomi25 - 09-23-2014
One thing I really wish they'd bring back is the boys' nerdy fun stuff. Aside from the occasional board games and video games with the ladies, as far as I can remember, the boys don't have good, clean, geek-out fun anymore, like from the earlier seasons. And when they do have those, they had to come up with excuses and do it behind their women's backs (like in S7E4). Wuuuuuut? Just because they've got women in their lives now, doesn't mean they can't be their usual nerdy selves anymore. Aren't they allowed to have some kind of boys' night or something where they could just toy around with something or discuss about comics?
I really miss those opening scenes where they have amusing activities like these:
Now, the only opening scene they seem to know is to have the whole group in S & L's apartment and eat their takeout meals.
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 09-23-2014
"And when they do have those, they had to come up with excuses and do it behind their women's backs"
See, this is the issue. Who lives this way? In what sense is that a "relationship", if there's no communication or trust about even the simplest and most unimportant things? What type of person objects to harmless hobbies and activities? It's not like these guys are losing the rent money at the racetrack, or standing on a street corner and drinking. The things they do are so wholesome and totally unobjectionable. It's not like "hey, let's go fire a gun at people's mailboxes..."
And why would you attach yourself to a man if you dislike pretty much everything that defines him? WHY? How is that a relationship? It's not a relationship if you neither *understand* nor *like* the person. Don't you want someone you resonate with, someone you're simpatico with, someone you actually connect with?
I can't understand A and B's motivations, and when you can't understand a character's motivations, IMO that's a good sign that they are a one-dimensional character. You can't analyze what they do, because it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny...
I wish A and B could have boyfriends who were sneaking off to use meth or something, and *then* they'd see how it is. They'd fall down and kiss S and H's feet...
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Idle Miscreant - 09-23-2014
A's motivation seems generally that she wants to 'belong'. The problem is that once she IS accepted, she rapidly becomes judgemental.
I have no sympathy for an adult who sits alone and cries on their birthday with a special little cake for themselves (even if it was in her head). Maybe you're alone because you're a miserable, self-pitying suck-joy?
I detest self-pity.
I also object to people using other people as accessories, or as extensions of themselves. AFF has an entire fantasy built up around the "cool kids", and a list of things she seems to keep ticking off. Sleepovers, alcohol, peer-pressure, bitching, cliques, boyfriend, date nights, marriage, home, children...But at no point does it seem to matter WHO these people are, or what the meaning of the event is, just as long as it vaguely matches the image in her head. Sheldon LOOKS the part, but falls very short of her romantic ideals, and her EXPRESSED wish for a "normal boyfriend".
I just find her very empty.
She's an entirely artificial character, with multiple personalities to fit various plotlines, so I probably shouldn't be surprised by this...
My biggest irritation is the misconception that it's a "sweet, innocent" relationship "unlike anything on television" because it's going so slowly. It would only be "unique" if the slowness was consensual. It's not. Amy is constantly pushing, Sheldon is constantly resisting. TPTB say so all the time. That's not sweet and innocent, it's exhausting and wrong. And humiliating and shameful for both characters.
They COULD actually do something amusing with Amy. Making her a chaotic, weird, "sassy" (
) single character having a variety of bizarre hook-ups, where she ran rings around them, and baffled the other characters etc, would have been potentially rather joyful to watch. But her whole character is steeped in frowns and suffering now. She's set permanently at mode:Harridan. And all because her boyfriend isn't playing normal. But instead of breaking them up, and liberating BOTH characters, they still plod on with this gloomy, impotent, unnatural relationship, ruining Sheldon in the process.
Now excuse me I have to go the Grand Canyon to scream in frustration...
![[Image: tumblr_mgoo61C7wU1rn52q2o1_500.gif]](https://38.media.tumblr.com/7c2f59191ca7e0fbee22cc303ad3722c/tumblr_mgoo61C7wU1rn52q2o1_500.gif)
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 09-23-2014
Quote:But at no point does it seem to matter WHO these people are, or what the meaning of the event is, just as long as it vaguely matches the image in her head.
See, I haven't studied the Amy character or the Shamy situation, so I probably shouldn't be commenting. You've given some insight, here.
I would agree that A and B do not see the guys as individuals; they are clay to be molded into Generic Perfect Husband. They're just empty place-holders, just dolls to be manipulated.
Their individuality, their very *personhood* is seen as an obstacle, a flaw to be removed, a defect to be overcome, so that the goal of a conventional and conformist "normal, perfect, happy life" can be achieved.
It's chilling, and sad.
This show's message is about appearances, now. It's about doing things "because that's what normal people do", not for any concrete reason. It doesn't matter who you marry, or why, what's important is the mere fact of being married/coupled, because that makes you socially-acceptable. The trappings of a conventional lifestyle are what's important, not any type of real happiness or self-actualization or self-discovery.
"Real life" is the white picket fence and 2.5 kids and the minivan, and in order to achieve this you must shed the self like a caterpillar shedding its skin. Any resistence to this program is immature and selfish and a sign that you are still "unreconstructed."
And I suppose it's not really the fault of the female characters, since they are just conduits for this bizarrely rigid and retrograde message the writers have decided to put forth...
And it's "for your own good" that you must go through this process of "overcoming" your own personality, your own nature. Cutting away the things that make you special, like cutting off a wart...
Maybe this also applies to the Lenny situation; someone else can chime in, here.
Am I overstating things??
RE: Wishful Thinking... - ricardo shillyshally - 09-25-2014
Here's something I can't quite get! In Bat Jar Conjecture, the three guys need a fourth for the Physics Bowl. Raj suggests the actress who played Blosoom, as we know played by MB. Weird that she's mentioned! But I'm sure Leonard then says we're not having a fictional character on out team!
RE: Wishful Thinking... - Louise - 09-25-2014
Quote:Weird that she's mentioned! But I'm sure Leonard then says we're not having a fictional character on out team!
One of the few times they should've listened to Leonard...
btw, I love that ep, it is one of my top faves
