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+---- Thread: SPOILERS: What fresh hell is this? - S9 (/showthread.php?tid=355)
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Ratman77 - 10-24-2015
(10-24-2015, 05:09 AM)Idle Miscreant Wrote: I ordered an identical satchel to the second one on ebay 3 months ago. It hath not arrived. Villainry, I suspect.
How am I now to carry my booze and manuscripts around?
I shall never trust anyone ever again.
Since 1993 we all should know it.
TRUST NO 1!!!(X)
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Idle Miscreant - 10-29-2015
To give guests something new to read and something for you chaps to comment on, given that we spend most of our time blethering about non-TBBT related business in the chat room, here is our brief summation of the latest taping, pieced together from 3 sources, including our own. A fuller version is in the Time Machine, as per usual.
9.09 The Platonic Permutation ~ Vague Gist
Having badgered his other humanoid companions to no avail, Sheldon goes to the aquarium with Amy, as a friend (hence the title), during the course of which outing it is revealed Amy went on dates with 6 other men. They play a pleasant game about fish, which leads Amy to reminisce fondly about their relationship together, whilst Sheldon is thinking about the game itself. So different wavelengths as per norm.
Meanwhile, Howard meets Elon Musk (grand space-lord) at a Soup Kitchen, which, oddly enough, he, Raj, Bernadette and Emily are volunteering at for Thanksgiving. Elon offers to contact Howard for any future missions. This is obviously splendid news.
In another, slightly more dubious universe, Penny doesn't know what her husband's birthday is, and Leonard reads his wife's private journal. But everything's fine because Leonard dresses in Penny's lingerie as penance. We don't really have anything to say about any of this. Apparently the scene was amusing.
The episode ends with Amy requesting (after 6 months, and after telling Sheldon to his face that he was immature, selfish and emotionally and physically difficult as a boyfriend) to be Sheldon's girlfriend again, at which point he wisely recognizes that he is not particularly suited to being her boyfriend, and that they were better off as friends.
This last scene was filmed twice. First with the line; "I excel at many things, but getting over you wasn't one of them. I think we should just be friends."
Then again as; "I excel at many things, but being your boyfriend wasn't one of them. I think it's better if we stay friends."
The latter version sounds like genuine self-understanding, and acceptance of the ultimate unsuitability of his romantic relationship with AFF, thus hopefully forward into a new (well, Vintage actually), happily self-reliant Sheldon.
The former sounds like a line from either fanfiction or Brokeback Mountain, and suggests he's brooding spitefully, which is quite a different tone and message. Which they ultimately choose is a mystery. We hope to god they go with self-reliant, happy Sheldon...
In summation; This would be marvelous if the creative powers went through with it, and stuck to their proverbial nerf guns. The quandary with Sheldon was always - how can you change him to be suitable for a woman like Amy, who (as of Season 5) wants tangible affection and traditional romance, without altering his character to such a degree that he becomes unrecognizable, and/or unfunny? Well, you can't, is the short answer, and that is precisely the reason so many Sheldon fans have despaired these past few years, particularly during Season 8.
"Boyfriend Sheldon", at least as Amy's boyfriend, is so far from the original, vintage creation, that there is very little left of him to call Sheldon at all. He has no Sheldonic traits left. He is certainly no longer the driven, peculiar alien Sheldon we admired, and watched the show for to begin with.
And if it goes for devoted original Sheldon fans (rather than the shippers that emerged post Season 4) then it presumably goes for the wider long-term audience as well. Change Sheldon too much and you lose his nature. Lose Sheldon's nature and you lose the show. The ratings went down during the sentimental "Boyfriend Sheldon" years. It is time to resurrect Vintage Sheldon. Single, horrifically intelligent, devoted to his work, and the comedic heart of the show.
A few scenes with his pal Penny wouldn't go amiss either. Where are the Sheldon/Penny scenes of yore?
Verdict - We'd very much like to see Howard frothing over Elon Musk, and are exceedingly pleased with Sheldon's decision. Less enthusiastic about the fish and lingerie sequences. But on the whole, huzzah!
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - wellplayedpenny - 10-29-2015
I have to admit that I am thrilled with the latest development that Sheldon has refused to resume his relationship with Amy, choosing instead that they remain friends.
This has been what I'd been pushing for ever since TPTB shifted Amy from a friend who found the notion of romantic love to be an unnecessary cultural construct that adds no value to human relationships, into a potential love mate for Sheldon. This was a colossal mistake, a rookie mistake, if you will, because it seems to me that only someone who has no clue into what makes Sheldon Cooper shine would make such a decision.
In the fandom there's been a rather wide gulf between those who see Sheldon's early season portrayal as 'robotic' and those who see him as a true homo novus. As Molaro has applied his romantic agenda to the show, it seemed in subsequent seasons (6-8) that TPTB were of the former sentiment—a belief that Sheldon was in need of change and that Amy was to be that catalyst. There have been interviews with Prady and others saying essentially that Amy knows what's best for Sheldon and that his reluctance to pursue a physical relationship was merely an obstacle. She broke him out of his comfort zone.
The problem I had with this is that her actions were more the result of bullying or manipulative mechanisms for self-gain than a genuine wish to break Sheldon out of his comfort zone for his benefit.
In contrast, Penny's relationship with Sheldon has been a series of 'when worlds collide' where both have learned from the other. She questioned his intellectual authority and that led to the prank battle—a battle of equals where you'd have to be blind to not see the passion in a riled Sheldon. Robot my sweet patootie.
The problem with the whole romance angle for Sheldon is that it presupposes that there was something 'missing' in his life, something that left him incomplete. I'd argue that s1-4 Sheldon Cooper was the most 'complete' character on the show. He was unique and a satisfying wave of awesome—and knew it too. He was unapologetically himself.
The conversation at the aquarium shows that Sheldon has been introspective over the six months since Amy dumped him. s8 was a horror show for Sheldon fans as he was continually badgered into becoming the boyfriend that Amy wanted him to be. And yet it wasn't enough. I think Sheldon has come to realize that it would never be enough and has therefore decided to return to a time when they got along. This is not a 'robotic reboot', this is a man who realizes that they are not romantically compatible.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Deciding that he'd like to remain friends with Amy is a testament to how much she means to him. It's also an 'adult' response to the situation, something that might be ironic to some that this comes from Sheldon. It's not an irony for those who remember the Sheldon who gave up his spot to make amends with Wolowitz or hired Raj to keep him in the country.
"I excel at many things, but being your boyfriend wasn't one of them. I think it's better if we stay friends."
Sheldon's a remarkable man who marches to his own drummer. Given that Molaro is in charge, I realize that the romantic element will once again rear its head and envelop my Shelly but it doesn't take away the truth of Sheldon's statement.
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Toad - 10-29-2015
(10-29-2015, 08:54 AM)Idle Miscreant Wrote: This last scene was filmed twice. First with the line; "I excel at many things, but getting over you wasn't one of them. I think we should just be friends."
Then again as; "I excel at many things, but being your boyfriend wasn't one of them. I think it's better if we stay friends."
Interesting... Personally I'm inclined to think they'll go with the latter. The first one is jarringly wrong for the context. But what I find interesting is how vastly DIFFERENT in meaning the lines are; the first one creaks with mopey, foot-caught-in-the-door equivocation whereas the second shines with self-aware decisiveness and practicality.
Or, put another way, the first one is Sheldumb, the second is Vintage Sheldon (or a close facsimile thereof). And so yeah, I'm hoping, obviously, the second reading is the one to make the cut.
Vintage Sheldon for the win!
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Kimk26 - 10-29-2015
(10-29-2015, 11:17 AM)Toad Wrote:
Interesting... Personally I'm inclined to think they'll go with the latter. The first one is jarringly wrong for the context. But what I find interesting is how vastly DIFFERENT in meaning the lines are; the first one creaks with mopey, foot-caught-in-the-door equivocation whereas the second shines with self-aware decisiveness and practicality.
Or, put another way, the first one is Sheldumb, the second is Vintage Sheldon (or a close facsimile thereof). And so yeah, I'm hoping, obviously, the second reading is the one to make the cut.
Vintage Sheldon for the win!
I just think the second line makes more sense, grammatically/contextually-speaking. The first..is like an oxymoron. Or, another word for Sheldumb.
And now that we're at it.. Toad, your thought about how interesting it is how diametrically opposed the two lines are..makes me wonder if this wasn't done deliberately. I mean, they know about the taping reports that go out, and how it stirs up all kinds of discussion/debate among the 'Relationship Sheldon/Independent Sheldon' camps.. Just wonder if this was on purpose. You know, 'cos people talking/debating means viewership/continued interest/ratings for them. ESPECIALLY because of the prevalence of the two sides in the fanbase. Huh.
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Nutz - 10-29-2015
The first take is interesting since supposedly 6 months have gone by and in the episodes we've seen so far Sheldon for the most part seems to have completely forgotten she was even on the planet. His focus seems to be about getting her back more for homeostasis reasons and not necessarily love since his first first thoughts for a replacement was Penny or Bernadette. There is also the word choice in the sentence "but getting over you wasn't one of them". By using wasn't instead of isn't or not. Implies he is over her and completely ready to move on.
Surprisingly, the more I think about the second take the more I disagree with it since it seems to be Sheldon admitting she (and everyone else) was right, he's been the problem all along not her (unless he changes who he is for her). To have this sort of realization from Sheldon and then turn around and have them get back together in a few episodes just seems wrong. Since it will mean Sheldon knowingly is giving up his soul and core identity for a woman.
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Kimk26 - 10-29-2015
(10-29-2015, 12:15 PM)Nutz Wrote: You The first take is interesting since supposedly 6 months have gone by and in the episodes we've seen so far Sheldon for the most part seems to have completely forgotten she was even on the planet. His focus seems to be about getting her back more for homeostasis reasons and not necessarily love since his first first thoughts for a replacement was Penny or Bernadette. There is also the word choice in the sentence "but getting over you wasn't one of them". By using wasn't instead of isn't or not. Implies he is over her and completely ready to move on.
Surprisingly, the more I think about the second take the more I disagree with it since it seems to be Sheldon admitting she (and everyone else) was right, he's been the problem all along not her (unless he changes who he is for her). To have this sort of realization from Sheldon and then turn around and have them get back together in a few episodes just seems wrong. Since it will mean Sheldon knowingly is giving up his soul and core identity for a woman.
Nutz, I've felt the same thing, about the homeostasis element. Several times now, it seems, that whenever he brings up the subject of (not) being in a relationship currently/looking for a replacement..that's just it. I would think if a person was set in their heart and mind about someone else, they wouldn't even consider going out with another person. And I have to note, in each of these instances, he's completely open to starting over with someone else. Whether it's someone he knows already, or someone he hasn't met yet. His heart doesn't seem to be into it, because, yeah, I think it's mostly about the homeostasis. We know he doesn't like change. And having a girlfriend was something he got used to. Now, NOT having a girlfriend means another change. So his answer is, he needs a new girlfriend.
Which, of course, we here think is ludicrous.
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Tuesday Pajamas - 10-29-2015
I think Sheldon was the best American sitcom character ever created. The show needs him and the changes they've made turned him into a very unfunny Mr Bean, over the last 3-4 years. He was NEVER a robot. He was raw emotion, shielded by an intellectual and very literal hard-shell. Where they take it from here depends on how much they want the show to make it beyond 10 seasons.
It's a wise move on behalf of the writers and something I never saw coming. S8 was so predictable that the canon fans were coming up with ideas about the arc that seemed very highly likely. That shouldn't happen. A show should be in charge and be capable of keeping fans on their toes.
Of course they will put them back together to rapturous applause by some and groans of disappointment from us, but we might get some decent episodes out of it. I suspect they will try to reshape Amy as well, a character which is re-penned regularly. It's a shame they have not given her more to do, another love arc perhaps. I'm thinking Raj, that Emily must go!
All in all, I'd be quite happy to have single Sheldon back. Then there's that constrast. Married couple Leonard and Penny, and single Sheldon. I hope they mature him (revert him) but stuff putting him back with Amy again.
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - Tuesday Pajamas - 10-30-2015
I've kept a diary since I was 15 and can relate to this. It used to be hand written but now there's apps, I do it on my phone or ipad. So I would assume Penny would keep a journal on the cloud as well, not written, but then they need Leonard to get access to it ...so....
Having someone read your diary is really invasive. I can understand a certain amount of temptation and yes, I believe Leonard would do this. He read her history paper and re-wrote it, it doesn't get much worse than that!
RE: What fresh hell is this? - S9 - lewstonewar - 10-30-2015
(10-29-2015, 08:54 AM)Idle Miscreant Wrote: Verdict - We'd very much like to see Howard frothing over Elon Musk, and are exceedingly pleased with Sheldon's decision. Less enthusiastic about the fish and lingerie sequences. But on the whole, huzzah!
I heard a glass clink every time I see the
ala Frank and Sadie Doyle from Beyond Belief