Shenny HQ
The rest of Season Grate (Eps 8.07-8.15 and 8.17) - Printable Version

+- Shenny HQ (https://shennyhq.co.uk/dir)
+-- Forum: The Big Bang Theory (https://shennyhq.co.uk/dir/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Anything can happen Thursday (Season 8-12) (https://shennyhq.co.uk/dir/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+---- Forum: Season 8 (https://shennyhq.co.uk/dir/forumdisplay.php?fid=30)
+---- Thread: The rest of Season Grate (Eps 8.07-8.15 and 8.17) (/showthread.php?tid=251)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20


RE: The rest of Season Grate - devilbk - 02-05-2015

Comic Book isn't till the 19th.


RE: The rest of Season Grate - lewstonewar - 02-05-2015

(02-05-2015, 05:29 AM)Tuesday Pajamas Wrote: Promo pictures are out for next weeks episode, Comic Book.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/02/the-big-bang-theory-episode-815-comic_4.html

[Image: 105958_D0173b_FULL_zpsvffscpb2.jpg]

Shenny tension? Soft Kitty

[Image: 105958_D1080bc_FULL_zpsb7gxzmsn.jpg]


[Image: 105958_D0608bc_FULL_zps8qxtcoac.jpg]

Penny has a bicycle? That's new. It's so prominently placed i'm surprised it wasn't a plot point. If not that was a random choice by set design.

EDIT: looking back at episode photos, it look like it's been there a while I just haven't noticed. Still random pink bicycle with big basket in the front.


RE: The rest of Season Grate - SpaceAnJL - 02-06-2015

Where's the Butch and Etta homage scene? Or failing that, ET? The bicycle has been there since the beginning, but it has never been used, a waste of so many possibilities.


RE: The rest of Season Grate - wellplayedpenny - 02-06-2015

In tonight's episode we have an actual plot in the form of the guys' troubles with an internet troll. Granted, this all begins rather ominously with Leonard coming up with the ground-breaking idea even though 'this is totally not [his] area' and that Sheldon is 'way better' with the math. Apparently Amy isn't the only character who can make significant contributions to other scientific fields. Who knew when I was cutting up the fetal pig for biology class that I could have simultaneously solved the proton dilemma in dark matter theory instead of mulling how the ovary looked like a kidney bean. Leonard's in a different field than Sheldon, but as all physics is just math 'doodles' I, apparently, shouldn't be too particular.

Aside from this issue, the rest of the plot turned out reasonably well; Sheldon was within the realm of being Sheldon instead of the later seasons' redneck. It was nice seeing him working on science(!) and I was at least appeased by him taking Leonard's idea and fleshing it out with his own ideas, turning it into a paper even Leonard couldn't downplay. Leonard's paper became more than just 'their' paper as Hawking noted that it was the 'Cooper-Hofstadter' paper—Sheldon was lead author. Sheldon also noted that his affiliation with the paper would give it credibility so apparently Sheldon isn't the washed up physicist we've been seeing this season. Sure, they might devote entire episodes to his losing his way, his doubts, his failings, but apparently the writers only see these as 'minor issues' that we shouldn't think of as canon. Of course, anyone who does follow canon already know how well the writers actually stick to it (in The 43 Peculiarity Sheldon thanked Leonard for being a quiet sleeper who is 'a real catch compared to some snoring guy' so you can take Leonard's nasal surgery and stuff it!) so we shouldn't be surprised.

As for the girls' 'plot' (hey, says a writer, here's an idea: while the guys actually come up with an idea, publish it and deal with the consequences of doing so let's get the girls together so they can take turns humiliating each other and otherwise making each one feel grossly uncomfortable. Hurray for gender equality!) the girls take great glee in being shit-disturbers, with Bernie and Amy cackling at Penny's movie, Penny and Amy at Bernie's beauty pageant video.

Then there comes Amy's fan fiction about Sheldon and she in the midst of Little House on the Prairie. The writers show that they are aware of what's out there in Shamyland fan fiction writing with the general view that early Sheldon was robotic and boring until Amy came along to 'change him'. It's good writing, Amy insists, but also admits it's 'wishful thinking'. In the story, Amelia is intrigued at the man from the future for all the knowledge Cooper possesses but the parts of the story that get fleshed out include her interest in his underwear and his knowledge about sexual practices in the future. (On second thought, the writers on the show are trying to pass off Shamy as a relationship of the mind so maybe Amy could get a job with TPTB.)

And then we get to the poignant part of the 'plot'—Amy's reading of Cooper's declaration of his love for Amelia. Again I take issue with the direction as 'THIS IS A MOMENT' is stamped all over it with MB taking the story from Penny, reading it in a straight tone, the silence of the audience. I've seen more subtle product placements in Toy Story 3. It was staged, not organic at all, and played for heartstrings because, after all, the audience is supposed to side with the long-suffering (and sexually starved) Amy. No one's supposed to side with Sheldon because the audience 'knows' that Amy's 'good' for him.

I think it's rather apt that there are two choices for Cooper: his life back home in the future or a life with Amelia. It's Amy's story so of course he chooses her. Goodbye old life and long live the Shamy.

On second thought maybe Amy did get hired to write for TPTB....


RE: The rest of Season Grate - Trust No One - 02-06-2015

(02-06-2015, 09:57 AM)wellplayedpenny Wrote: In tonight's episode we have an actual plot in the form of the guys' troubles with an internet troll. Granted, this all begins rather ominously with Leonard coming up with the ground-breaking idea even though 'this is totally not [his] area' and that Sheldon is 'way better' with the math. Apparently Amy isn't the only character who can make significant contributions to other scientific fields. Who knew when I was cutting up the fetal pig for biology class that I could have simultaneously solved the proton dilemma in dark matter theory instead of mulling how the ovary looked like a kidney bean. Leonard's in a different field than Sheldon, but as all physics is just math 'doodles' I, apparently, shouldn't be too particular.

Aside from this issue, the rest of the plot turned out reasonably well; Sheldon was within the realm of being Sheldon instead of the later seasons' redneck. It was nice seeing him working on science(!) and I was at least appeased by him taking Leonard's idea and fleshing it out with his own ideas, turning it into a paper even Leonard couldn't downplay. Leonard's paper became more than just 'their' paper as Hawking noted that it was the 'Cooper-Hofstadter' paper—Sheldon was lead author. Sheldon also noted that his affiliation with the paper would give it credibility so apparently Sheldon isn't the washed up physicist we've been seeing this season. Sure, they might devote entire episodes to his losing his way, his doubts, his failings, but apparently the writers only see these as 'minor issues' that we shouldn't think of as canon. Of course, anyone who does follow canon already know how well the writers actually stick to it (in The 43 Peculiarity Sheldon thanked Leonard for being a quiet sleeper who is 'a real catch compared to some snoring guy' so you can take Leonard's nasal surgery and stuff it!) so we shouldn't be surprised.

As for the girls' 'plot' (hey, says a writer, here's an idea: while the guys actually come up with an idea, publish it and deal with the consequences of doing so let's get the girls together so they can take turns humiliating each other and otherwise making each one feel grossly uncomfortable. Hurray for gender equality!) the girls take great glee in being shit-disturbers, with Bernie and Amy cackling at Penny's movie, Penny and Amy at Bernie's beauty pageant video.

Then there comes Amy's fan fiction about Sheldon and she in the midst of Little House on the Prairie. The writers show that they are aware of what's out there in Shamyland fan fiction writing with the general view that early Sheldon was robotic and boring until Amy came along to 'change him'. It's good writing, Amy insists, but also admits it's 'wishful thinking'. In the story, Amelia is intrigued at the man from the future for all the knowledge Cooper possesses but the parts of the story that get fleshed out include her interest in his underwear and his knowledge about sexual practices in the future. (On second thought, the writers on the show are trying to pass off Shamy as a relationship of the mind so maybe Amy could get a job with TPTB.)

And then we get to the poignant part of the 'plot'—Amy's reading of Cooper's declaration of his love for Amelia. Again I take issue with the direction as 'THIS IS A MOMENT' is stamped all over it with MB taking the story from Penny, reading it in a straight tone, the silence of the audience. I've seen more subtle product placements in Toy Story 3. It was staged, not organic at all, and played for heartstrings because, after all, the audience is supposed to side with the long-suffering (and sexually starved) Amy. No one's supposed to side with Sheldon because the audience 'knows' that Amy's 'good' for him.

I think it's rather apt that there are two choices for Cooper: his life back home in the future or a life with Amelia. It's Amy's story so of course he chooses her. Goodbye old life and long live the Shamy.

On second thought maybe Amy did get hired to write for TPTB....

I really enjoy the Sheldon and Leonard friendship. It reminded me of the Sheldon and Leonard Friendship before Leonard was obsessed with getting with Penny. both being very supportive of each other and sharing in their mutual love of science. I thought Howard and Raj were more forgotten characters and it was not a bad thing. I thing this episode was about the Sheldon and Leonard team.

I thought the plot with the women came up very small and was been there and done that. It added nothing to the episode. Amy's fanfiction was again trying to force something that is not there with the Shamy. There is no natural flow with the Amy character and everything seemed forced. This episode also showed that Penny, Bernadette, and Amy make lousy friends. I would lump in the Women's scenes with the Shamy and Lenny. Just trying to hard with very little return.


RE: The rest of Season Grate - devilbk - 02-06-2015

I found it interesting that Sheldon is now into LOLcats. I wonder who he got that from. And Sheldon also no longer uses wipes. Twice.


RE: The rest of Season Grate - Idle Miscreant - 02-06-2015

So Cooper-Hofstadter redux eh? Excellent news about the science angle!
And Leonard being appreciative of Sheldon. And Sheldon being Sheldon, not “I’m not a smart man, but I know what love is” Cooper.

So WineWineWine to the writers!

I’d very much like to watch this episode, but as sitting through Amy’s soft-porn scenarios would necessitate a set-up reminiscent of Clockwork Orange, I might just look for bits of the lads and Hawking on Youtube.

I’m trying to think if I’ve ever laughed at any of the “Girl Night” scenes since they were introduced in late Season 4….Er, no, I believe. But that’s probably just my sense of humour. The show has a very wide appeal now, as opposed to narrow and particular, so it probably has to throw in a variety of humours to appeal to all a little, rather than a few, a lot.
And other garbled sentences.

Unfortunately the downside of this, is that if the original show was exactly suited to your “particularities”, then these broader scenes are just dead air.

For example, mine:

INTERESTS & DELIGHTS
Sheldon and his obsession with his work
Sheldon’s routines, tics, passions, idiosyncrasies
Sheldon & Penny puzzling each other out (and general whatthefuckery)
Sheldon & Leonard’s marriage..sorry, friendship
Howard & Raj adventure scenes
Gadgetry and Howard’s ill-fated inventions
Intricate discussion of sci-fi/fantasy quandaries
Games, Kite-Fighting, Paintball
Clash of worlds (anytime a ‘straight’ wanders in)
University shenanigans
Kripke, Gablehauser, Zack, Leslie, Stuart, The Koothrapalis,
Dream sequences (of the surreal, non-porn variety)

DEAD AIR OR ABHORRENCES
Girls’ Nights
Amy manipulating and correcting her “sexy toddler”
Leonard and Penny’s eyeball-glazing relationship
Bernadette yelling at Howard and telling him what a useless putz he is
Raj & Whoever It Is This Week.
(The four relationships essentially. Although I could fix them in a jiffy, if you want a cranky misanthrope’s opinion on such matters…Unfortunate if you don’t – I’m listing them at the end. sass )

This episode evidently had:
Sheldon and his obsession with his work, Sheldon & Leonard’s friendship, & University shenanigans.
But:
Girls’ Nights, & Amy’s fantasy life.

The early seasons would only have had the first plots. If there were some program I could install that could edit out the latter plots automatically (or replace them with something soothing, like a lava lamp) then I genuinely think I’d be quite delighted with these later seasons.


(02-06-2015, 11:18 AM)devilbk Wrote: I found it interesting that Sheldon is now into LOLcats. I wonder who he got that from. And Sheldon also no longer uses wipes. Twice.

Devil, Sheldon didn’t use hand-wipes because Sheldon doesn’t do anything Sheldon used to do before. When was the last time he searched for the acoustic sweet spot? Now at the cinema he just holds hand with his girlfriend. (Would Sherlock Holmes go to the cinema with his girlfriend? I ask you!) Sheldon doesn’t have routines, Sheldon doesn’t have germ phobia, Sheldon doesn’t disdain romantic relationships, Sheldon doesn’t sleep with his head away from the door, Sheldon likes bears, Sheldon likes Lolcats, Sheldon can understand sarcasm, Sheldon can tell lies, Sheldon can tell sex jokes, Sheldon is no longer a detached observer of humanity from an honourable and unusual alien planet, Sheldon is human and going to get married and have babies and that’s all you should care about.


Now. Speaking of such things...

CRANKY BASTARD'S RELATIONSHIP FIXES

Fix 1) Put Penny with Sheldon. The show then comes full circle with the joining forces of the antagonistic polar opposites. Sheldon needs someone warm to balance his reserve. Extro to his Intro. Chaos to his order. Penny needs someone challenging. A little complicated to write at this late stage, but artistically classic if they pulled it off.
Amy wants an easily affectionate, sexual, romantic genius? (3 things there the opposite of Sheldon) Hello Raj! (Thus also removing an extraneous 8th character) Leonard learns his own self-worth and is not thus dependent on a partner for validation. He begins to find true passion in science again. Bernie allows “Howie” to play with his goddamn toys a bit more.

Fix 2) Put Amy with Raj again, for same reasons (they’re both lonely and wanting affection, and Emily is amusing but extraneous). Penny and Leonard continue (zzzzzz) harmlessly, Bernie and Howard continue less shoutily, and Sheldon is allowed, once more, to be Sheldon. The solitary alien observer of humanities foibles and overall eccentric gimcrack. His character intact at the centre of the show, and not being bent out of shape around a tertiary character.

Fix 3) Sheldon & Penny, Raj & Howard, Leonard & Stephanie. And Stuart peering into the Existential Abyss, clutching his Wookie mug.

I have no hope of Fix 1 or 3 sadly, but I'm holding out for 2.

FREE THE SHELDON! SAVE HOMO NOVUS!


RE: The rest of Season Grate - Louise - 02-06-2015

Enjoyable post, Gripe. I like how you take things apart and look at them from a different angle.

Y'know, when I read that list of "Interests & Delights", it's such a special feeling. It's like the concepts themselves are glittery and exciting and so full of promise. Blossom

Quote:The early seasons would only have had the first plots. If there were some program I could install that could edit out the latter plots automatically (or replace them with something soothing, like a lava lamp) then I genuinely think I’d be quite delighted with these later seasons.

This is such a healthy, reasonable, and balanced approach, and I wish I could feel that way. I just don't feel like attempting to look for the good in these later seasons and extract the pretty-good parts from the rest.

When I made that thread about "Okay stuff in the later seasons", I soon discovered that I didn't have many personal examples to give, and I also realized that to me, "Later seasons" means 4 and beyond that lies the Forbidden Zone.

I dunno, I think my goodwill has been totally exhausted. At this stage I just have a gut-level negative reaction to anything involving the newer eps, and I just recoil automatically, like when you pull your hand away from something hot.

[Image: 1tubtt.jpg]

Space has sometimes mentioned being unable to enjoy the old eps because of the awareness of what lies ahead*. Conversely, I think I might be unwilling to enjoy the okayish parts of the later seasons because I know what's already happened, meaning the various major JTS moments of S5/S6 when the format underwent big changes. It all has a shadow hanging over it, now. It's like the "calm" scenes in a horror movie, which come before or after something jumps out at you. You know the scary things are still present, lurking, just beyond your view.

Basically, it's not worth it, to me. It's too distressing and I just don't care. I find the sweet and lovely-dovey H/B moments almost as objectionable as the blatantly unpleasant shouty ones; I object to the ship in its entirety, period, so it's not like "B. takes a chill pill" would tempt me to start watching again.

At this point I think this show and characters are just a springboard for lots of fanciful AU ideas, to me. I'm not a viewer in any conventional sense. Even with the early seasons, I sometimes think that I like the characters and the concept more than the execution. (It's often that way for me, with shows.)

I'm trying to examine *why* I just don't feel the willingness to look for the silver lining in these new eps, and this might be one reason: a lot of these eps and plots and storylines seem like a real slap in the face to Nostalgics, as opposed to just "Well, this isn't what I would do, but whatev." It's like they're specifically designed to hurt us and offend us and tear-down what we loved, like TPTB is saying "No, you're wrong, and you were wrong to prefer that other stuff."

I can think of PLENTY of storylines and plot-twists and ships which would not be my personal favorite, but which I wouldn't find actively offensive, either. It's not like I'm hearing about these eps and going "Well, that's not my personal preference, I find this to be a mildly annoying choice, but whatever." But there's a difference between a TV series that just sort of loses focus or fades away, versus one that's being intentionally destroyed by its creators. (seemingly). If the plots and the TRs sounded merely *boring*, that would be one thing, but they're not merely uninspired or a bit silly, they're upsetting. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I don't like the feeling of being deliberately manipulated and told what to think. I don't want to let TPTB jack me around and I'm not playing their game.

I've put a lot of mental effort into sort of brainwashing myself into believing that this isn't the same show or the same characters at all, it's just some kind of spin-off, some different iteration of the same franchise, in the same category as the unaired pilot.

I don't want to pop that bubble of "This isn't real." If it's not real, then are no new episodes. Either the show we knew is over, or it's not. It's too much hair-splitting and doublethink for me to deal with, otherwise.

Anyway, I'm very happy for the people who feel pleased and heartened by this ep. I'm just thinking out loud.


I know, I know, I'm Eeeyore.

[Image: 350qow6.jpg]


*Correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth Space.


RE: The rest of Season Grate - SpaceAnJL - 02-06-2015

No, you are saying exactly what I did. I can't watch the older episodes without that sense of impending horror - like watching any film set in the early 20C when they dismiss all that nonsense on the Continent as being over by Christmas, or get on that fancy new White Star liner. And I made a deliberate choice not to watch anything past a certain point, because I didn't want my eyeballs tainted by something I could never unsee. The Penny gif is my mental reaction on anything from the S3 finale onwards.

Really, why pick over a stinking carcase on the off-chance there might be a small amount of something salvageable - leave it to the maggots.


RE: The rest of Season Grate - Louise - 02-07-2015

Seasons 1 and 2 are The Big Bang Theory. S3/S4 are when they start to sneak in the re-boot/spin-off through the back door, and 5 is the completed installation of the spin-off. If you made a Venn Diagram, S1-S2 would be one circle, S5 onward would be the other circle, and 3/4 would be the place where the two circles overlap.

Yes, there is loads of great, classic, iconic stuff in 3, and some good stuff in four. If you're someone who doesn't mind Bernadette or finds her easy to ignore, you'd probably say S3 is still Vintage. I think you can find other flies in the soup with S3 though. There's the Lenny, there's the introduction of AFF at the very end, there's the Arctic issue--which isn't really on my radar because I'm not Sheldon -centric, but I know it really, really angers and upsets some people, and I understand why, even if I don't feel it on an emotional level. The equivalent for me is Killer Robot, but that's Season 2, and it's kind of a foreshadowing of how badly these writers can suck when they try to stretch the format or try to go for darker, more serious themes.

In TV lingo, there's a "backdoor pilot." Well, this is a backdoor spin-off or backdoor re-make. They were sneaky, and gradually phased-in the new show as they gradually phased out the old show. That's why it's so hard to pinpoint the exact place where things changed. S3 and/or S4 are a gray area. There is no single, obvious JTS moment. Every person of a Nostalgic bent probably has their own personal line in the sand, marking the boundary between old and new. And there are even some pretty good moments in the later seasons....***but they are good moments on a different show.*** That's the key difference. They can't be evaluated in the same way.

I can't post images right now, but if I were to illustrate this process with color theory, it would go like this: if S1 and 2 are blue, and S5 onward is yellow, then 3 and 4 are the place in-between which is green. S3 is a green composed of more blue than yellow, S4 is a green composed of more yellow than blue. We move gradually from blue into yellow, with 3 and 4 being the transitional part. And why do we still find the occasional vestige of Vintage-style BBT in the later seasons? Because yellow is still located pretty close to blue on the color wheel. They look very different but they're not totally unrelated.
( yellow being a symbol of cowardice, I think this is pretty apt.)
Or, if you want to use fandom/fanfic lingo, what we're looking at now is a "Canon Divergence AU", maybe.

ETA: as I've said before, I would feel about 99% better if they simply gave this new show a different name or gave the characters different names. In other words, if they were honest and open about what they've done. If they wanted a profitable generic romcom, they should've ended their quirky little nerd- show and made a profitable generic romcom which didn't claim to be anything else, instead of this "We know you like chocolate, so now we're going to give you vanilla while insisting it's still chocolate" BS.

TPTB realized, a bit late in the game, that Parsons is a draw. Well, frankly, from what we've seen of Parsons, I think he would've been perfectly willing to star in a new Lorre production. They could've shed every cast member except Parsons and made their profitable new romcom.

Instead of keeping the old audience *and* adding a new audience, they have instead lost the old audience. But it doesn't matter one bit to them, because the new audience is much, much bigger. Therefore, I wonder why they even made a pretense of still being an eccentric, geeky, smart show or even bothered to gradually transition away from the original format instead of just quickly chucking it altogether. Sciencey stuff is not the draw for the casual viewer; Parsons is. Maybe they thought they could keep the original fans, but they didn't.
As we've seen, TPTB have zero understanding of WHY people liked Vintage BBT or what the good parts were. The parts which TPTB view as the most important, the stuff which is precious to their hearts, are the parts which Nostalgics consider the most boring, annoying, and irrelevant. There is a huge disconnect between TPTB's intentions, and what the original fans perceived. TPTB have now taken the worst parts of the Vintage years and made them the whole of the show, because they are incredibly, intractably, fanatically stubborn and blind about what REALLY made those years special. They will NEVER stop believing and insisting that this show's central premise and reason for existence is Lenny, and therefore we now have Lenny times four.